Intoscience

Blackholes are evidence that there are regions of space-time where the geometry is such that once past a certain point (the event horizon) there is no escape from within that region. It is not evidence of the existence of physical singularities.

Which is why I said Its too early to say whether there is a dispute over the big bang model. I think one of the issues we have is that relativity predicts a mathematical singularity, but physically a singularity makes no sense. However, at this scale quantum theory takes over from relativity and things get a little muddy - the quantum fluctuation you alluded to. The other thing, and this is where its becomes difficult for us to conceptualise, thinking in terms of "all" and "contain in" assumes a measurable quantity. Measurement at that scale also becomes difficult.

I think part of the problem with trying to conceptualise this, is the issue of trying to imagine "pre" space-time. Even the idea of before makes no sense because this infers a time pre time, which in itself is paradoxical. It could be that space and possibly time had no beginning and that both are infinite. Our idea that the observable universe had a beginning at the "big bang" on relativity and observations gave rise to the notion of - "pre" space-time or what we commonly call the primordial singularity. Though recent observations made by JWT of large distant galaxies may question the accuracy of the big bang model.

Maybe it assumed the possibility that Joan could have been accelerated in a spaceship to a relativistic speed for a period of time only to return younger than her daughter? 😝

Ha, yes I never really give that a thought, well done!

Not mastered... everything with my weaker hand as yet, but working on it 😝

That's a very positive way of living your life but its not really a purpose (unless you make it a personal one). It's more of a code of practice, or method, or goal. As far as I can see, and I mentioned this earlier in the thread, if there is a purpose then it seems that the one purpose is survival, self survival long enough to aid in continuation of your species - reproduction. Why this is so? Who knows, but it makes sense in that, else basically and very simplistically, there would be no point in living in the first place.

Not really a money saving or particularly labour saving, but being right handed I used to operate my PC mouse with my right hand. However at the odd time I needed to multi task I found it a pain. So I learnt to use the mouse with my left hand allowing me to multi task. I soon adjusted and its very useful, it also makes me smile when people who come to use my pc say "I didn't realise you are left handed" When I reply I'm not, they look at me very confused. Anyway as a result I try and use my weaker hand for more things, I enjoy the challenge and it tends to be beneficial.

Sentience: capable of sensing or feeling : conscious of or responsive to the sensations of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, or smelling This is an argument for the A.I experts, philosophers & neurologists, of which I'm non. My argument is around A.I developed/evolved/alien that is more intelligent than we are, and out of our control.

The insertion of sentience is around the AGI sensing its environment. To a degree certain AGI maybe be required in such a way to operate at it's most useful, where awareness of it's environment maybe pivotal. Many A.I machines already receive and process sensory information, why not take that a step further?

I share a similar view, which is why I alluded towards the "paperclip maximizer" idea. My point really was about ways in which an advanced A.I could be threatening towards us and in ways that we may not expect or realise, or even imagine. Consciousness was brought into the conversation as a familiar mechanism in which the A.I could essentially "think" like humans. Think about it this way, any intelligence that surpasses our own and has technological capabilities is by definition a potential threat. If we remain in control of this intelligence then we can secure our safety. But if, the intelligence gains independence then well... that's a whole new potential problem.

In my personal experience, I have met and got to know around a dozen or so "self-made millionaires" all bar non share a type of personality that is ruthless, extremely selfish, unsympathetic, greedy, and tight. As pretty much depicted by the character scrooge but hidden behind a cloak showing a face of care and compassion. Obviously not all self made people are of this type, some just happen to be lucky, or have their talent recognised and rewarded.

I never said you had, I was just pointing out that to gain likes you may need to gain popularity and establish this within the community. This can be achieved 2 ways. 1. You post concise and informative information that is objective, non bias, with respect to others and without a clear personal agenda other than educating the reader. 2. you post lots of nice things agree with and/or support other popular members, so to gain their traction for yourself. Or you can be honest, show some integrity, post as per you own personality, beliefs, ideas, opinions... still showing respect towards other members and see how the land lies from there.

A modern computer is orders of magnitude more complex than an abacus. I'm not chasing anything, I'm simply not dismissing something that is potentially possible just because its not presently possible. I'm not claiming that any of my suggestions are true or may prove to be so. I'm stating a fact that A.I is and continues to develop at a rate where it has the potential to become far more intelligent than we are and even could imagine. Whether sentience or consciousness emerges as a result remains to be seen. Also are either of those emerging traits required for A.I to be an uncontrollable threat? You are very confident in your convictions that A.I won't become so "powerful" that they will ever pose a threat to humans. I don't know your age, but may I hazard a guess (assuming it will take another 50 + years) that you may not be around to see if your convictions are verified. So it doesn't really matter to you one way or another.

I have had the same dream myself on a number of occasions, expect I was convinced I'd buried the body in some nearby waste land. When considering my own death I have always imagined it to be on my own birthday. Being very OCD I prefer simplicity,order and symmetry. So my grave stone would read exactly my age to the year! Or Maybe you just knew, somehow...

I think the counter to that is, our brains for example in basic physical terms are just complex biological computers. Yet, for some unknown reason consciousness emerges from this system. If consciousness is exclusive to complex biological systems then fine your argument stands. However, we don't understand how-why-when consciousness emerges in the first place, other than it appears to have some connection with complex intelligent systems.

Though evolving (to some degree) the weather remains fairly consistent and relatively predictable so its unlikely (failing a catastrophe) that the weather mechanism will dramatically change much over the next 100 years (ignoring human influence). However, A.I capability is changing very rapidly as technological progress continues. Your smart phone now is much smarter than it was 15 years ago. If you extrapolate this progress out based on current developmental progression then within 100 years A.I will be far smarter than any human in history, and possibly by an unimaginable margin. Obviously this doesn't mean it will become conscious or sentient. But, the possibility is real if we assume the emergence is directly related to intelligence. Agreed, we have not enough understanding of consciousness and how it comes into existence, hell we can't even agree on what "intelligence" is. So until someone comes up with a clear and verifiable way of measuring/mapping the process of consciousness coming into existence then we are a bit stabbing in the dark. I feel though in this instance, stabbing in the dark is better than not stabbing at all.

For myself if it had been a couple of times and inconsistent, I'd probably dismiss it as just coincidence or overreactive or selective rational. But it has been 6 times now, same feeling same outcome, different scenarios, different relationships with the people involved. No claim, but certainly spooky and not pleasant. It certainly could be just down to odds, like Genady suggests. It can be quite difficult to grasp such statistics when it involves one self, especially so when feelings are considered.

It's happened to me 6 times, the exact same experience/feeling sensation, followed by death the day after. 4 of those the person dying has popped in my head just prior to the feeling. On 2 occasions I was in conversation with a close relative of the person but had no indication of who would die. That's all I have, I can't measure it, I can't predict it, I can't control it, I can't describe the sensation in words in a way that someone who doesn't experience it would be able to exactly understand it. It maybe coincidence, it may be woo woo, I have no theory, claim or any other agenda. I just thought since this thread is about spooky experiences (I assume, difficult to explain away with current science) I'd share mine. It's not a nice experience, one I don't wish to keep experiencing. She probably experienced a similar feeling I did. People who don't understand it themselves are quick to dismiss it. I have explained that its not like anything you can easily describe. Its not like a premonition in the sense that you get some image or a word in your ear... its a sensation, a gut feeling as some might say. And its not nice, its out of your control, you cannot predict it happening and you can't stop it, or ignore it when it does happen.

I'm confused how you can compare a weather forecast to emerging consciousness? I asked by what mechanism does consciousness emerge, how when and why? Because our best guess so far is that it has some connection to intelligence, in that the more complex an organism gets, mainly its brain function/capability then there is emerging consciousness. So following a similar model and extrapolating that out for A.I, at some point A.I would become conscious, assuming it's not exclusive to organic materials of course.

So consciousness and sentience are intrinsic to organics, especially so complex systems? By what mechanism do these emerge and when?

Well half of your replies seem cryptic to me! I guess I'm just not smart enough to interpret them, maybe i'll get chat GPT to assist me. How indeed...? This is the crux if/or/and when. How would you suggest consciousness and/or sentience emerges?

I'm not sure it does but, the experience makes me wonder if there is a collective energy (for want of a better word) or something that we are all engaged in. The only way I can describe it is a bit like when a thought suddenly pops into your head, a realisation of something that takes you by surprise in a way that grips you inwardly. I cant describe it in a way that does it justice in a way that would allow others to understand what I experience.

Ok, so I recently had another spooky experience. I felt, this word is the only way I can describe my experience, though feeling or thought doesn't really nail what I really experience, its more of a sensation. I felt/had an overwhelming sensation that something tragic was going to happen to a close friend while I was chatting to him quite recently. I have had this sense before when there has been an imminent death. The following day, his daughter aged 25years was thrown from her horse and died from the injuries. This tragedy has shocked us all, but I now feel guilty that I felt something awful was imminent. I have had this experience happen to me on a number of occasions and it has not always been about friends or family, sometimes just people I have briefly met. I know it sounds fantastical, paranormal... I don't understand it and I have no control over it I can't even describe the sensation in words that make sense. It happens every now and then but it is always prior to someone's death. Not always the person directly but always in association, much like this latest experience. I truly wish it was for something else far less tragic than death.

I agree, and if the scare mongering was coming from activists or fanatical enthusiasts, then I would not share the interest I do. However there are many experts in the field of A.I who show a concern. This to me suggests that the technology is moving very quickly. I think also, because we don't really understand the mechanism which brings consciousness and sentience into being within intelligent biological systems, then there is that niggling worry that it may happen in A.I systems outside of our control. So the sensible thing is to try and mitigate the risk without stalling the development. A.I systems are and continue to be great assets and tools for humankind. Lets hope it stays that way.