hoola

I can imagine the torus planet could be built, and would probably have to be stabilized by internal structures not occuring naturally, and also a large moon(s) in orbit around it, just as our moon stabilizes our planet...I could also see the atmosphere having a thinner but loftier ceiling at the torus center hole...perhaps losing atmosphere into space at the center unless some mechanism is used to stop the loss..(giant sealed bubble halves jutting out from center?).and being a really cool region to go hang gliding with the lowered gravity...if you could keep atmospheric pressure pumped up...with a no gravity region at dead center..

I do see the "slinky effect" of pushing one atom and a delay of forces propagates throughout the material of the molecule...reacting from the direction of the push to cause movement of the whole...and that temporary compression of distance between atoms causing a resistance to the push, until a decompression point is reached, and then acceleration ceases and the mass will "coast" if allowed to. The same thing applies as it collides with another mass, the atoms are forced closer together in a temporary way, exerting inertia to the thing it is striking..the normal distances between the molecule's atoms seems to be the mechanism, and any temporary violation of the internal rules causes an attempt to re-establish these distances...according to the particular material's rule set. I can think of space in the same fashion, with the virtual particle pairs performing the same function, allowing the propagation of EMF and gravity waves through space...as the information that describes the fields change the information of the particles slightly, affecting the fleeting particles as they appear and disappear, by alterations of mathematics, which looks like a physical interaction on the macro scale...as say a photon travels through space. I can imagine that the virtual particles are constantly bombarded with fields of many types coming from all directions and that there is an upper limit on how much information can be transferred through a particular virtual pair set in their brief lives...even a kind of "swamping effect" in which, say an overwhelming gravity effect is dominant and reaches the "carrying capacity" of a particular virtual particle set, fixing the attendant math structures into a single mode of operations...this would keep the internal makeup in constant fixed position, and change would be minimized. Any reduction in change marks a reduction in time...so this could be why time slows as gravity of the black hole affects it's immediate region of space...this would also "screen out" other non-gravitational fields from having access to the inner mechanism of the pair, causing light to be dimmed from an outside observer...making the immediate region seem opaque to light, or other EMF waves in their attempt to transfer out of the black hole...

aren't there supposed to be "strings" that makeup the quarks?

sorry I can't help you with your question but, I have read about the false positives lately on the gamma ray scope with the no afterglow, and read along time ago about GRBs coming from deep space with no apparent source. I have been wondering if some small portion of the false reports come from space itself. After all, this universe came from a "burst"from nothing. What if universes pop out naturally once in a while, but since there is a universe already here, it fails due to the encroachment of the information already present, poisoning the proto-universe so it "aborts" instead of developing further into a similar universe as ours. I suspect the pop is minor as the abort happens with only a tiny fraction of the information needed to cause a big bang, with the first releases of the early stage developments by the evaporation of the IBH (informational black hole) that would have been it's first issuance of space/time. If this is true, then all that is needed to construct a universe is a void with a minimum of contamination. I see ours as one of those, with the "1 void" rule. With no information in the void, no universe can be triggered. With too much information in the void, possibly no universe, unless the information somehow doesn't clash or interfere with normal dvelopments, due to of being a small amount or of compatible information content...

the way I measure infinity is measuring time against it also, and the clock started aeons ago with the void contamination, as is continuing today, and heading toward infinity, one click of the fastest clock works allowable by the rate delivered by logic...that rate of PI calculations by the computer that is the universe's protagonist, the IBH. Nothing is something we can observe, or measure, it was exactly one void. And that was enough. One bit or conceptual bit. As far as the quantum fluctuation goes, I don't see the universe getting started with a jump by something that came about after it's formation. There must be a mechanism that allows self-generation within the void. That is the basis of the continuity between existence and non-existence. The big bang was the transition point between description of reality and described reality. Infinites cause paradoxes that exist within the bounds of mathematics, which is always striving towards it, within each discipline of the maths toto, the many arrows shot out of each sub-field into baroqueness. If you consider the exposition of reality as "work"...evolution is work from a animistic/sentient point of view...force fields and physical interactions of particles is "work" to the non-living component of reality... is the IBH evaporating? Did it already evaporate? If a conventional black hole will eventually evaporate and go "pop" at the end, could the same mechanism be presaged in how the IBH delivered it's information to the extant universe? Could the IBH "hawking radiation" be partly responsible for that transfer that manifests itself as reality? Was the big bang the IBH's "BIG POP" that relates to "little pop" at the end of a normal black hole's life? And the earlier, long term evaporation was setting the stage for the final output with the construction of the dimensions, or space or space/time, however it might be considered?

I don't see the case of the "strong difference to any (non-existent) fluctuation", but I do see the universe in 2 basic ways of no infinities and no nothings, but as close as the universe can make it so in both cases, when and while the universe is at it's present place in time...disregarding the infinities, considering the "nothings", I first surmise there were was only one nothing, it is incorrect to pluralize the term. This given, there could be attached to this void, if you will,that label, as the faintest of triggers for the universe to take this concept of "oneness" and with the aforementioned steps, carry on until....now. As long as infinity is never reached (which would signal a repeat, or set within set of PI, through the mechanism of repeating the same information), the universe will continue to expand and sentience will continue to evolve.. Is PI eternally never ending, non-repeating, regardless of the speed of calculation?

I see these non-physical elements consisting of 4 parts. First is a void, which has the default minimum information of "1" void. This is the purest of concepts which gave a single theoretical "bit" to void, so adding input. Since logic was not present, the input appears as countless bits, since there is no regulatory system to stabilize value. Sub-bits behaved "chaotically", and time commenced as each bit changed in value. A point of co-incident symmetry occurred randomly, allowing a region of stable value to some bits, in a sort of strange attractor effect, in the chaos total. This concept of logic evolved by accreting symmetrys from the total chaos, creating fully formed logic. This logic now stabilized the first theoretical structure, the point. This theoretical point, under the domain of the new logic allowed a theoretical output of PI, as derived for this particular universe(s), from the logic function.The output of PI being such that an information generator of so far, endless capacity to begin to populate the void, allowing even information a kind of mass, the bits were so many, as calculated by logic. The bit count eventually reached the point of the self contained descriptions so as to allow a consilience to occur creating a theoretical structure of physical reality. The density of the void creates the IBH, or informational black hole. This well within the void creates a large roster of possible physical objects and fields, and as a last function, creates the dimensions, hence the large release of the information, as now there was somewhere to go, as supplied by the dimensions...in this scenario, the universe(s) was/were theoretically built in the IBH under the domain of logic, and the big bang was one concequence of this internal development...

lawrence krauss spoke of a quantum fluctuation causing the appearance of the universe, but supplies no guess as to how the mechanism of said quantum fluctuation could have occurred with no previous quantum fluctuation behaviour established, which must be a complex interchange of internal parts itself, leading to a conclusion that the fluctuation has sub-structure...so not the originator. It seems the universe would have started without any physical, albiet however brief, stimulation by the present day phenomena known as quantum fluctuation. I see concept leading to chaos, to logic, to math, to us...complete with quantum fluctuations, at the end of the flow chart, not the beginning, and that these complex fluctuations being an artifact of the necessary "over-write" of the physical universe description sets. Fluctuations appear with the big bang, at the onset of physical determinant reality...and are as such a physical phenomena, very far evolved from the pre-bang developments preceeding it...which consisted of non-physical elements evolving toward physical elements...

in other words, give your explanation as to why anything, what was the starting principle?

why not?

if reality is composed at it's most fundamental level of information, how did this "material" come about? In a sense, that is what reality is "doing" with all this fancy evolution business...so as to extrapolate before the existence of maths proper, to whatever preceeded it. I see a flow-chart that begins with the void and ends with the IBH which describes everything and allows a tiny fraction to be expressed as the universe(s). Many of you have seen my threads already so I won't repeat myself unecessarily here unless asked specific questions...

The basis of this connection with physics is we use math measurements in physics and in a sense math is measuring itself, or rather completing an analysis of it's own internal makeup. I will start a new thread...

if everything is information, the randomness of radioactive decay could be explained by the mechanism of description of individual atoms. If every atom is a specific algorithm set, consisting of strings of numbers at it's most fundamental level, perhaps the algorithm contains largely similar number sets, with small variations, like junk DNA in living cells. One or two variations in a cell's DNA might have no significant bearing on the identity or functioning of a particular cell. Similarly, small variations in protons and neutrons mathematical makeup might cause the randomness of certain radioactive decays...yet have them remain as functioning particles in normal relationships with other fundamental particles. Their sub-components of quarks are likely simpler arrangements of numbers and have few variations within them, but added together in the 3 quark components of protons or neutrons, the cumulative effects add complexity to the situation for each individual atom. If this is true, then a direct readout of the complete algorithmic structure of individual atoms could allow a prediction of the life span of a particular atom, and make the radioactive decay more predictable...ps to peter, if we don't "go there" into mysticism, we won't de-mystify it...

I am curious as to the type of noise that swamps the experiments....what local effects could earth be having with it's constantly roiling interior, and earthquakes, whether the experiment is carried out on earth or near earth orbit...? Wouldn't the earth be a high noise area for gravitational wave detection experiments? If mars has no convection within it, and being so far out, would that be a better place to try?

it seems probable that mathematics will not be able to easily describe things that came before mathematics, and if all the information to describe this universe lies within it (the maths), it seems likely it contains scant information as to how math came to be. The inability to "measure" nothingness is a prime example..... however, if someone were to develop some sort of data compression software and run PI through it, maybe some basic elements of it's construction could be accessed and inferences could be drawn as to the underlying logic structures and how they fit together...as translated into formal mathematics....therefore easily describable...

we can stop thinking at least on a superficial level for a short period of time, just as we can stop breathing briefly. The brain needs to think, even when disengaged with a conscious task, as a biolgical requirement, just as we need to breath. The analogy continues with the brain needing to not "overthink"which leads to negative consequences such as obsessive-compulsive disorder, and the breathing with "hyperventilation". "Turn off your mind and surrender to the void" was a lennon lyric I can relate to...as an investigation with the emotional and spiritual minds of the void, once the intellect is briefly ignored by the awareness...

but nothingness (void) was not an apple.....it is a rare commodity now however, having evolved into us..."the extinction of nothingness"...through an interesting mechanism...to somethingness. The void had one very specific and unusual property, that it was ONE void. That is the only label that can be attached to "it" (concept of oneness), but that was the primary bit of information that became the froth of the (hot) chaos, (since there was no logic yet to control it) which developed a random region (cool spot) of logic, which evolved resilient math structures within this region of chaos, allowing the newly stable original bit an interval to develop into the IBH (informational black hole), and reality is determined by that informational content that follows the precepts of that basic, fully formed logic. The information that does not adhere to logic is still in the IBH, and to varying extents influences reality, through quantum effects most notably, and more obscurely through sentient thought processes (you can imagine totally illogical happenings)...in this scenario, all you need to generate a universe or universes is a "true void" or complete nothingness, and nothingness not only exists, but must have once existed unless you believe in some sort of steady state or religious origin...the trick is to offer some sort of mechanism to allow something to evolve from nothing, once you grant that indeed, nothing could have once existed...and you presume some sort of deity didn't happen to get involved. It seems interesting to me that a human "concept of oneness" with and within our universe seems to be a major root of human philosophy, as my system requires it as the original bit...

sorry, I am trying to describe a mechanism that determines what is real in the universe, and that is different then what -is -real -in -physics...as physics is bound to the strictures of mathematical measurements and cannot look very much deeper into time than the big bang of which could be a recent event in comparison to the overall TOE.timeline. This being a philosophy forum, I thought my commentary appropriate...

sequences of numbers so as to describe some agency or thing so completely it somehow becomes real to an intended observer...

IBH is the informational black hole that describes this and other universes...I have in several related posts defined it and given broad parameters and how it came to be. Since it already is in the site, I will refer you to my posts, mostly in speculations or cosmology - astronomy. One prediction of the IBH system is that there are no purely mental constructs. Anything you or any sentient being can think do or say was in the "roster" of the well of the IBH before the big bang within the "junk DNA" of the IBH...hence the limitation of "free will"...the IBH generates information. Most of it is junk (illogic), a small percentage describes reality, as a sort of available programming material for the universe in the classic sense...in short, the universe is the result of mathematics in the process of calculating an endless (?) algorithm of PI, and thank you for the comment about QM being an abstraction. The whole universe is an abstraction (more of a holographic description) when placed under close enough scrutiny...QM is a more obvious form of abstraction, as it has a lower percentage of information that is supported by the underlying logic that guides IBH output, but has enough correlation to pure logic to translate into a property of the material universe... I will be most happy to answer any questions related to this area if previous posts are unclear...

as regards to the imaginary/real discussion, I see both as the informational product of the IBH, and the imaginary is not supported by the underlying logic, and the real is. Quantum phenomena are partially supported by logic. The maths of the universe construction spits out all the information contained within this universe, of all three types...one can only imagine a 25' spider if the universe provides the informational context to have it imaginable. This puts a limit on free will of sentient beings to act or even think supposedly novel thoughts...and (most) anything you might think do or say was encoded before the big bang occurred in the period after logic construction. Since the IBH is still active, new information is being provided for additional "comment"...of which I "imagine" will be forthcoming .....as to how silly this all sounds...

unity, I am not being serious or not serious, I simply ask the question, why anything? and see a flow chart based on how could something arise from a "void" ? It seems our reality stems from a long series of evolutions starting from the "concept of oneness" to the chaos, to logic, to maths, to us...If there were a concept of oneness, that developed prior to logic, then concept's theoretical output would be "chaotic" and random, as logic hadn't intervened to organize and structure anything from the unstable values of proto-information. Out of this chaos of unstable information, developed a region of random occasional stability. This I see as the beginnings of logic, which eventually developed the maths that allows the theoretical point void to begin to output the current pattern of PI...in other words to get the void to "do work", by reducing entropy..that created the IBH, which determines reality...I don't think so much that this idea is true, but seems a placeholder till someone can explain a less ridiculous way of getting here...if another more plausible scenario is presented to me, I'd appreciate it greatly...

is anything really "real" in this universe, if everything is information ? If everything is information, reality is a description of what we presume is real. Not that it has no "realness", as the information is supported by logic, which is the true determinant of the % of realness of this universe. Although shades of illogic get expressed also in the "real world" as quantum effects...all from the IBH...

it seems logical that if enough additional universes were added to the "roster", and if the only force felt or transmitted between adjoining universes is gravity, and if that manifests itself as the dark force, then at some point the dark force increases would slow the expansion of our universe, leading to collapse of our universe and perhaps others, with similar cause...

when I said the remark about niclola tesla and the "flying pigs" I was using that as an example...who knows if tesla ever imagined in his mind a flying pig...his "flying pig" was the desire to send heavy electical currents through the air without wires.... and his undoing, as the early successes with the AC motor were squandered on this, plus he could have beaten marconi to the punch on radio if he hadn't wasted his time with the idea...as far as dealing directly with the forum topic, I see anything one can imagine as being within the IBH (informational black hole) and we can only imagine or express what is within that. The IBH created the universe in math terms, and is nearly infinite, which allows any sentience to have a not quite infinite imagination. This puts a cap on free will, which relates to the question "if I can imagine it-it-is -possible" is really asking. An act of free will is to imagine real or impossible things. The ultimate act of free will is to imagine things not yet described by the IBH...a seemingly impossible task...