Progress is good, right?

[dimreepr]

I’m a great fan of technological progress, in the main, sure it can dive down the wrong tunnel on occasion but I would be diminished were it not for this internet thingy or the relative comfort of modern life.

 

However it's to be a double edged sword; the fear of losing the advantages of progress seems to require an equivalent waning of moral fortitude.

 

All thoughts welcome.

Edited March 24, 2016 by dimreepr

[EdEarl]

I believe you will get little opposition to your supposition from the scientific community; although, there are some, really a few, such as the Amish, who object to modern things. Even they have adopted modernity to a smaller degree than most. On the other hand, many of our conveniences bring a heavy cost, for example the cost of climate change. We have begun to replace fossil fuels with renewables, but many more cleanup projects must be done. Some are one-timers and some will be continual or continuous projects. Installation of renewable power systems to replace fossil fuels is a one time project, but maintenance of renewable technologies is on-going. The ethical and cultural challenges are far more difficult and seem to be blocking our worldwide changes so that everyone has basic necessities, a condition necessary to minimize suffering and abate greed.

[Phi for All]

I don't think there's anything inherent about technological progress that erodes moral fortitude. I think modern marketing wants as wide-open a path to your money as it can get, so they always push the boundaries of what's allowed.

 

Our entertainment used to be more heavily regulated. Some of the shows we watch today would have brought shocked reaction if they aired 20 years ago. Producers would have been crucified.

 

It is interesting to note the attitude towards foul language. It used to be more heavily enforced, but now the perspective seems to be, "These kids hear worse in school all day". Well, of course they have, that's not the point. Do they need to hear it all evening, too?

[dimreepr]

I don't think there's anything inherent about technological progress that erodes moral fortitude. I think modern marketing wants as wide-open a path to your money as it can get, so they always push the boundaries of what's allowed.

 

 

This would suggest 1% of us would be affected adversely in moral terms whilst 99% of us do so through manipulation, I have to disagree.

 

 

Our entertainment used to be more heavily regulated. Some of the shows we watch today would have brought shocked reaction if they aired 20 years ago. Producers would have been crucified.

It is interesting to note the attitude towards foul language. It used to be more heavily enforced, but now the perspective seems to be, "These kids hear worse in school all day". Well, of course they have, that's not the point. Do they need to hear it all evening, too?

 

 

 

Doesn’t such regulation distort reality and critical thinking? If, for instance, our children have already heard foul language, surely we should be teaching them a method to discern when such language is appropriate, rather than, trying to dictate when they hear it?

I believe you will get little opposition to your supposition from the scientific community; although, there are some, really a few, such as the Amish, who object to modern things. Even they have adopted modernity to a smaller degree than most. On the other hand, many of our conveniences bring a heavy cost, for example the cost of climate change. We have begun to replace fossil fuels with renewables, but many more cleanup projects must be done. Some are one-timers and some will be continual or continuous projects. Installation of renewable power systems to replace fossil fuels is a one time project, but maintenance of renewable technologies is on-going. The ethical and cultural challenges are far more difficult and seem to be blocking our worldwide changes so that everyone has basic necessities, a condition necessary to minimize suffering and abate greed.

 

 

It seems, from this, that the sword is just as sharp however limited the acceptance of progress/modernity

Edited March 24, 2016 by dimreepr

[Robittybob1]

 

 

This would suggest 1% of us would be affected adversely in moral terms whilst 99% of us do so through manipulation, I have to disagree.

 

....

Could you please give me an example of adverse effect on moral fortitude?

[Sirona]

I work a lot with adolescents and one thing I find particularly alarming among the Generation Z is their disregard of privacy. They've been online for as long as they can remember and when it comes to the internet, they've no inhibitions. Don't misunderstand me, I am an advocate for a free internet but a lot of adolescents become involved in adult activities too soon on the internet that they're not emotionally ready for. It's not just watching porn, downloading movies with profanity or violent games either, but it's the increase of bullying and harassment that's taking place. Adolescents often think that because they're online they're safe and guarded with what they say and post but don't understand the permanency and evidence they leave behind. They also need the instant gratification, talking with someone on a forum or via email is not satisfying enough, they need IM apps, photo and video chat, location tracking enabled.

Privacy and safety is just one issue, I believe adolescents find it difficult to make meaningful connections with others that doesn't result in an immediate benefit, social advantage or personal gratification. This behaviour, such as needing to constantly be connected and record everything I believe comes from inner feelings of instability, doubt and insecurity. Advancement in technology isn't the only cause either, international issues such as War on Terror and the GFC has contributed immensely. However, National issues such as the mining boom, housing boom, rising cost of living, population growth, high youth unemployment, increased competition for University have increased feelings of uncertainty and insecurity.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Sirona

[Robittybob1]

IM apps - instant messenger applications

GFC - Global financial crisis

 

Show that I'm behind with progress as I had to Google both those acronyms.

[Sirona]

IM apps - instant messenger applications

GFC - Global financial crisis

 

Show that I'm behind with progress as I had to Google both those acronyms.

You don't have to be Gen Y or Z to understand GFC, Rob. Just pick up a newspaper or a textbook.

[Robittybob1]

You don't have to be Gen Y or Z to understand GFC, Rob. Just pick up a newspaper or a textbook.

I'm more interested in science topics, than finance. I just read the forum rules and they had some rules about using abbreviations, so I personally write the word in full with the abbreviation in brackets first and then use the abbreviation after that.

 

You certainly seem to be very aware of what is going on #6. Have you thought of getting involved with politics?

[dimreepr]

Could you please give me an example of adverse effect on moral fortitude?

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/23/refugee-crisis-human-rights-uk-criticism-david-cameron-theresa-may

 

 

Europe’s human rights commissioner has accused David Cameron and Theresa May of “scaling up alarmist rhetoric” on migration, portraying migrants as a “threat to UK society” and fuelling a xenophobic climate in Britain.

 

 

[swansont]

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/23/refugee-crisis-human-rights-uk-criticism-david-cameron-theresa-may

 

 

 

How is an influx (or threatened influx) of refugees, and knee-jerk reaction, an issue of technology? The same thing happened 75+ years ago, from WWII, well before all of the newfangled technology we here.

[dimreepr]

 

 

How is an influx (or threatened influx) of refugees, and knee-jerk reaction, an issue of technology? The same thing happened 75+ years ago, from WWII, well before all of the newfangled technology we here.

 

 

I’m sorry for any ambiguity in the OP but the question is about progress not technology, specifically, the fear of losing our stuff and the general comforts progress provides and how much that diminishes our moral code.

[swansont]

 

 

I’m sorry for any ambiguity in the OP but the question is about progress not technology, specifically, the fear of losing our stuff and the general comforts progress provides and how much that diminishes our moral code.

 

 

 

How is your example an issue of progress. I'd say it's a problem because of a lack of progress. We still have way to much bigotry and hatred in the world.

[dimreepr]

Exactly my point, progress appears null without an analogous moral progression.

[EdEarl]

I'm confused about your use of progress. You seem to be saying progress is not moral progression, but the two are linked. Either no moral improvements means progress is null, or progress is null means no moral improvements; which one? What do you mean by progress?

[swansont]

Exactly my point, progress appears null without an analogous moral progression.

 

 

But were talking about moral progression, not technological progression, so I don't see your point at all. We've had plenty of technological progression in that span, and far less moral progression, but I wouldn't say it's a waning of morals, though I'm sure some would. (I think bigotry is immoral, for example. Others apparently embrace it as the end-all, be-all of good)

[dimreepr]

My point, maybe a little confused, was that technological progression seems to inspire a moral regression, in that the comfort technology brings also inspires a fear of losing that comfort; fear and morals seems to be uncomfortable bed-fellows.

[EdEarl]

My point, maybe a little confused, was that technological progression seems to inspire a moral regression, in that the comfort technology brings also inspires a fear of losing that comfort; fear and morals seems to be uncomfortable bed-fellows.

I think you are picking two things out of current culture, like picking a flower and clover from a field, and trying to connect one to the other. Yes, technological progress and moral actions are part of current culture. I think there is a general consensus that technology is progressing; although, some believe otherwise. I think your assumption of general moral regression is not necessarily true, and doubt there is such a consensus. Moreover, you have given no reason technology would cause moral regression. IMO there is no such connection. Moreover, I doubt general moral regression in society exists. It's up to you to make a case for your assertion.

I work a lot with adolescents and one thing I find particularly alarming among the Generation Z is their disregard of privacy. They've been online for as long as they can remember and when it comes to the internet, they've no inhibitions. Don't misunderstand me, I am an advocate for a free internet but a lot of adolescents become involved in adult activities too soon on the internet that they're not emotionally ready for. It's not just watching porn, downloading movies with profanity or violent games either, but it's the increase of bullying and harassment that's taking place. Adolescents often think that because they're online they're safe and guarded with what they say and post but don't understand the permanency and evidence they leave behind. They also need the instant gratification, talking with someone on a forum or via email is not satisfying enough, they need IM apps, photo and video chat, location tracking enabled.

 

Privacy and safety is just one issue, I believe adolescents find it difficult to make meaningful connections with others that doesn't result in an immediate benefit, social advantage or personal gratification. This behaviour, such as needing to constantly be connected and record everything I believe comes from inner feelings of instability, doubt and insecurity. Advancement in technology isn't the only cause either, international issues such as War on Terror and the GFC has contributed immensely. However, National issues such as the mining boom, housing boom, rising cost of living, population growth, high youth unemployment, increased competition for University have increased feelings of uncertainty and insecurity.

When I was young, adolescents met at the hamburger and root beer drive in, drove en-mass in circles, parked in secluded places to make out, and too young girls got pregnant. They didn't have all the technology, but managed to be constantly connected, had feelings of insecurity, desired instant gratification, and behaved more or less like teenagers today.

 

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. -- Socrates

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[dimreepr]

The fear of losing the past is equivalent to losing the comfort of now:

 

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/molr69&div=40&id=&page=

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/591751?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/591751?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1143018?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

 

So I agree with this, but I don’t think progress would be limited to it.

[EdEarl]

The fear of losing the past is equivalent to losing the comfort of now:

 

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/molr69&div=40&id=&page=

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/591751?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/591751?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1143018?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

 

So I agree with this, but I don’t think progress would be limited to it.

Yes, there are many things to fear. That isn't an argument for either moral regression or technology being the cause.

 

Genghis Khan spread fear from China to Russia and the Caucuses, Hitler spread fear throughout Europe, Northern Africa, and Russia. People still fear Tigers, and almost everyone during the stone ages would fear other large animals. Fear is part of the human condition.

[dimreepr]

I think the fear of loss differs from the fear of physical danger and is far more morally destructive, I merely suggest technology/progress fuels the fear of loss.

[EdEarl]

I think the fear of loss differs from the fear of physical danger and is far more morally destructive, I merely suggest technology/progress fuels the fear of loss.

What technology causes what loss or why would it cause a fear of loss. A cellphone increases ones ability to communicate with friends, family and others. They have been criticized for being used instead of speaking to people nearby; I am annoyed when someone gets a ring, and must answer it before completing a sentence I'm waiting to hear. That's bad manners, but people allowed interruptions to affect their lives in that manner (e.g., a knock on the door) before phones. Do you have any example of technology corrupting morals?

[dimreepr]

I’ve never suggested that technology itself causes loss, which seems to be the confusion here; my suggestion is that technology/progress creates ‘comfort’ and that’s what we fear to lose.

[EdEarl]

Are you arguing that having food, clothing, shelter and medical care, things that create comfort, cause people to fear more than if they didn't know where their next meal would come from, they didn't have warm clothes, they had no where to live, or were sick but had no access to medical care?

[Strange]

I think the fear of loss differs from the fear of physical danger and is far more morally destructive, I merely suggest technology/progress fuels the fear of loss.

 

So technology increases the fear of loss.

 

I’ve never suggested that technology itself causes loss, which seems to be the confusion here; my suggestion is that technology/progress creates ‘comfort’ and that’s what we fear to lose.

 

So technology reduces the fear of loss.

 

I'm confused.