hijack of melting ice cap theory

[Harold Squared]

Accurately measuring the temperature of the oceans is something of a challenge, OP. Check out the guest post by Willis Eschenbach, "Can We Tell If The Oceans Are Warming" on wattsupwiththat.com for his take on the subject.

 

Thanks for an interesting thread.

[iNow]

I'd watch out for the wattsupwiththat blog. It's a forum known for putting out misinformation and lies and has been repeatedly and consistently demonstrated to be full of falsehoods and nonsense. He even deletes criticisms and corrections, so a grain of salt is warranted.

 

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Anthony_Watts

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts

[StringJunky]

Accurately measuring the temperature of the oceans is something of a challenge, OP. Check out the guest post by Willis Eschenbach, "Can We Tell If The Oceans Are Warming" on wattsupwiththat.com for his take on the subject.

 

Thanks for an interesting thread.

 

Mr Eschenbach's C.V.:

 

Willis Eschenbach, B.A. Psychology, Sonoma State University (1975); California Massage Certificate, Aames School of Massage (1974); Commercial Fisherman (1968, 1969, 1971, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1994, 1995); Auto Mechanic, People's Garage (1969-1970); Cabinet Maker, A.D. Gibson Co. (1972); Office Manager, Honolulu Emergency Labor Pool (1972); Construction Manager, Autogenic Systems Inc. (1973); Assistant Driller, Mirror Mountain Enterprises (1975-1976); Tax Preparer, Beneficial Financial Company (1977); Accountant, Farallones Institute (1977-1978); Peace Corps and USAID (1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1993, 1994); Cabinet Maker, Richard Vacha Cabinets (1986); County Director, Foundation for the People of the South Pacific (1986-1988); General Manager, Liapari Limited (1989-1992); Regional Health Coordinator, Foundation for the People of the South Pacific (1994-1995); Project Manager, Eschenbach Construction Company (1995-2003); Construction Manager, Koro Sun Limited (1999); Construction Manager, Taunovo Bay Resort (2003-2006); Accounts/IT Senior Manager, South Pacific Oil (2007-2010); House Carpenter (2012-Present) http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/10/who-is-willis-eschenbach.html

Edited June 8, 2015 by StringJunky

[Harold Squared]

I'd watch out for the wattsupwiththat blog. It's a forum known for putting out misinformation and lies and has been repeatedly and consistently demonstrated to be full of falsehoods and nonsense. He even deletes criticisms and corrections, so a grain of salt is warranted.

 

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Anthony_Watts

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts

Duly noted. It is an award winning website worthy of monitoring, however. Do you have any specific critiques of the cited article?

 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Harold Squared

[iNow]

Check out the guest post by Willis Eschenbach, "Can We Tell If The Oceans Are Warming" on wattsupwiththat.com for his take on the subject.

Do you have any specific critiques of the cited article?

Mostly that he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about and appears completely unaware of the work actually happening in the field. One might start here, as one example among many: https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/General/temperature.html

[Harold Squared]

Sort of a general dismissal, then. I had hoped for something more specific. Thanks for the link anyway.

 

Digging a little deeper, I found Roy Spencer taking Eschenbach to task for not giving credit where credit is due. I have also seen Spencer correct objections to AGW based on the limitations of CO2's absorption spectrum.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Harold Squared

[Harold Squared]

Heard a rumor that Australia has an Antarctic station getting too far from resupply due to all the ice, may have to be relocated or abandoned.

 

Any comments?

[StringJunky]

Heard a rumor that Australia has an Antarctic station getting too far from resupply due to all the ice, may have to be relocated or abandoned.

 

Any comments?

Weather is not climate.

 

Harold, you're not thick... start again with an open and scientific mind.

Edited June 16, 2015 by StringJunky

[Harold Squared]

So you don't know anything about that report? I have a personal interest in Antarctica. Unique among the continents and all. It was a topical inquiry, polite and all that. Didn't cite the source on account of that was what I was as looking for. Thanks for the compliment, they're rare enough around here.

[StringJunky]

So you don't know anything about that report? I have a personal interest in Antarctica. Unique among the continents and all. It was a topical inquiry, polite and all that. Didn't cite the source on account of that was what I was as looking for. Thanks for the compliment, they're rare enough around here.

Unless I'm mistaken, I took the underlying message, implicit in your question, was that the Antarctic ice is evidentially not receding.

[Harold Squared]

And so we know nothing definite of whether the ice is growing or not. No big loss, since a.) Any report is anecdotal, and b.) It could change overnight, as whacking great chunks of ice have been known to break off into the polar sea.

[overtone]

Duly noted. It is an award winning website worthy of monitoring, however.

You shouldn't "monitor" it unless you can vet its continual barrage of crapola for yourself. For example, if you can't tell for yourself why the article you linked is largely bullshit, you will garner nothing but misinformation and conceptual error from that site.

 

If you need it: The entire article is a criticism of the claimed error bounds on the estimation of ocean temperatures done by Argo. The criticism is guilty of making some dodgy assumptions and deductions, but never mind that - The title implies that we can't reasonably decide if the ocean is warming or not unless these error bounds on the absolute temperature estimates by Argo are as small as Argo claims them to be. This implication is false. So the entire article is bullshit - whether it's well reasoned and factually accurate or not.

 

 

 

Heard a rumor that Australia has an Antarctic station getting too far from resupply due to all the ice, may have to be relocated or abandoned.

Any comments?

That's sea ice - floating stuff. For a variety of reasons, according to standard AGW modeling and predictions, sea ice coverage around Antarctica is very likely to increase as the southern polar region warms. What was your point?

 

 

 

And so we know nothing definite of whether the ice is growing or not

You mean you haven't bothered to check on what other people know, and you have a frog in your pocket who doesn't know anything either. Edited June 17, 2015 by overtone

[Strange]

And so we know nothing definite of whether the ice is growing or not. No big loss, since a.) Any report is anecdotal, and b.) It could change overnight, as whacking great chunks of ice have been known to break off into the polar sea.

 

I am fairly sure that there is some non-anecdotal research on this topic.

 

Perhaps you could read these 100,000 papers and then come back to us:

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=long+term+trends+antarctic+ice

[Harold Squared]

Working my way through "MASS GAINS OF THE ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET EXCEED LOSSES" by Zwally et al, 2012.

 

The truly amazing thing about the AGW models is that they can predict ice sheet growth as well as shrinkage! So what is the man in the street supposed to think?

 

Golly gee, is there anything those models CAN'T do? I mean, besides account for the pause or hiatus or whatever you guys are calling it these days...

Edited June 22, 2015 by Harold Squared

[dimreepr]

If you witness a, finger sized, leak in the dyke, FFS, put your finger in it; seems better than slowly drowning.

[Harold Squared]

And so we know nothing definite of whether the ice is growing or not. No big loss, since a.) Any report is anecdotal, and b.) It could change overnight, as whacking great chunks of ice have been known to break off into the polar sea.

Yes I spoke in error. More ice? Global warming. Less ice? Global warming. Bread doesn't rise in the oven? Global warming, of course! Why would I make this up?

 

Why do you guys? No beer, no coffee, no chocolate, and in 100 years (maybe 100 months) no people. No wonder you are all so grim, poor fellas.

[StringJunky]

Working my way through "MASS GAINS OF THE ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET EXCEED LOSSES" by Zwally et al, 2012.

 

 

MASS GAINS OF THE ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET EXCEED LOSSES" by Zwally et al, 2012.

 

...A slow increase in snowfall with climate warming, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.

 

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20120013495

[dimreepr]

Yes I spoke in error. More ice? Global warming. Less ice? Global warming. Bread doesn't rise in the oven? Global warming, of course! Why would I make this up?

 

Why do you guys? No beer, no coffee, no chocolate, and in 100 years (maybe 100 months) no people. No wonder you are all so grim, poor fellas.

 

 

 

Perhaps because you prefer the comfort our modern world provides; rather than face the future that thinking may bring.

Edited June 22, 2015 by dimreepr

[swansont]

Accurately measuring the temperature of the oceans is something of a challenge, OP. Check out the guest post by Willis Eschenbach, "Can We Tell If The Oceans Are Warming" on wattsupwiththat.com for his take on the subject.

 

Thanks for an interesting thread.

 

!

Moderator Note

The topic of the thread is whether water would expand if the temperature rose, so this and much of the discussion following is OT.