1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Infinity does not exist. It is a finite system with a starting point and an evolving exact size. If something like space or time is infinite doesn´t that mean that energy and so mass and matter has to be infinite too? If infinity is existing why would the Universe evolve? Edited March 25, 2015 by 1x0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Because there would be everything already and there would be no sense for evolution. Edited March 25, 2015 by 1x0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Evolution like the universe doesn't have a sense since it is not conscious. It just happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Because there would be everything already and there would be no sense for evolution. That would suggest that nothing could move, no energy could flow from one point to another, no chemistry could take place, no light ... As that is clearly not true, your random guess appears to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Why would infinite space imply infinite energy? And why would that imply equilibrium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Why would infinite space imply infinite energy? And why would that imply equilibrium? Because infinite space imply infinite time. Infinite time would suggest that energy and matter is presented "ad libitum" in infinite space as we would be able to inspect just a glimps of it in our observable part of the Universe. I do not think that infinity imply equilibrium, I think infinity would much more imply chaos than equilibrium. As our mathematical systems works with infinity I wonder what supports that idea in the minds of science. I do see a huge system but I do not see the signs of infinity. I would like to gather more information about the way mathematicians and physicians think and discuss the evidences support the thought of infinity. That would suggest that nothing could move, no energy could flow from one point to another, no chemistry could take place, no light ... As that is clearly not true, your random guess appears to be wrong. Or more it would be an infinite singularity. That is why I do not think that infinity is a possibility. I do not think that what I ask and speak about is a random guessing. Edited March 25, 2015 by 1x0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 For a start, time isn't infinite yet.It's only something like 14 billion years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) For a start, time isn't infinite yet.It's only something like 14 billion years old. I agree. If time is not infinite space is not infinite right? Evolution like the universe doesn't have a sense since it is not conscious. It just happens. I do not think it is true. I am conscious and I am part of this Universe. I am interconnected by gravity to everything else in this system so basically the whole universe could be conscious just by me. And there are many more other conscious entities out there. Like You. Edited March 25, 2015 by 1x0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Because infinite space imply infinite time. You forgot the part where you explain why. I do not think that infinity imply equilibrium, I think infinity would much more imply chaos than equilibrium. Then you should have no problem with "evolution" of the universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I do not think that what I ask and speak about is a random guessing. There is no evidence, math or logic so I am not sure how else to describe it. I agree. If time is not infinite space is not infinite right? No. There is no connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I do not think it is true. I am conscious and I am part of this Universe. I am interconnected by gravity to everything else in this system so basically the whole universe could be conscious just by me. And there are many more other conscious entities out there. Like You. ! Moderator Note Please, if you're going to post in mainstream physics sections, please be prepared to discuss mainstream topics. If you want to challenge what is already known, you must do so in the Speculations section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 You forgot the part where you explain why. "In physics, spacetime (also space–time, space time or space–time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space andtime into a single interwoven continuum. The spacetime of our universe is usually interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth dimension". By combining space and time into a single manifold called Minkowski space, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels." by wikipedia. Then you should have no problem with "evolution" of the universe I have no problem with the evolution if I inspect the system as an ever evolving finite system. I have difficulties to see evolution in chaos as everything is fine tuned and in order as far as I see it. What are the sings of infinity math based on? ! Moderator Note Please, if you're going to post in mainstream physics sections, please be prepared to discuss mainstream topics. If you want to challenge what is already known, you must do so in the Speculations section. Sorry about it. I would wanted to receive understandings and reasonings about infinity. Please move it to speculation if the thread fitt there better. I do not know what is already known as I do not know who think what. The thread is to clear that view. Some say multiverses, some say MWI, some say universe with infinite space but limited energy etc... I do not know what is the current general understanding and I would like to see it more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 "In physics, spacetime (also space–time, space time or space–time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space andtime into a single interwoven continuum. The spacetime of our universe is usually interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth dimension". By combining space and time into a single manifold called Minkowski space, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels." by wikipedia. Where does that say "infinite space imply infinite time"? It doesn't. The dimensions are independent (by definition). I have no problem with the evolution if I inspect the system as an ever evolving finite system. I have difficulties to see evolution in chaos as everything is fine tuned and in order as far as I see it. What you have a problem with is hardly relevant. What are the sings of infinity math based on? I'm not quite sure what that means. But this might get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_diagonal_argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Time not having an end makes it infinite. But it hasn't passed yet — that doesn't have to extend in the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Some say multiverses, some say MWI, some say universe with infinite space but limited energy etc... These are completely unrelated things. And all completely hypothetical. The multiverse idea(s) are about cosmology and the possibility of multiple independent universe. The Many Worlds Interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics (and therefore not a theory, just an explanation or analogy). Infinite space is one possibility. Finite space is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Time not having an end makes it infinite. But it hasn't passed yet — that doesn't have to extend in the other direction. Time having a starting point and not having an end does not make it infinite. Time presents the possibility of forever existence and so infinity but it will be an exact value in every moment of the physical reality if it do not exand on the other direction. How can something be infinite if it does not extend in the other direction? I mean in every moment time provides information about the age of the system. It can evolve towards infinity but at the moment of observation the system is a complete one finite system with one possible age. Or? What I don´t see here, where am I mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) How can something be infinite if it does not extend in the other direction? There are infinite number of natural numbers. They start at zero. Edited March 25, 2015 by Strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 There are infinite number of natural numbers. They start at zero. True. We could set a natural number next to every subatomic particle, electron and photon in the Universe and as we add them together they would give a natural number. One which would evolve in every moment. Still it would be a finite number. A natural number exist in reality. Math beyond the physical reality is a mental concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Still it would be a finite number. You don't know that. Just another random guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Time having a starting point and not having an end does not make it infinite. Yes, actually, it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yes, actually, it would. How and why? If time has an starting point how can it be infinite in an observed moment of reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 How and why? If time has an starting point how can it be infinite in an observed moment of reality? Like the natural numbers it could start at 0 and go on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Like the natural numbers it could start at 0 and go on forever. But you have the limit provided by the moment of reality. It is a certain number at the moment of observation. It has the property to expand towards infinity but it is a well defined information at that moment of observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 But you have the limit provided by the moment of reality. It is a certain number at the moment of observation. It has the property to expand towards infinity but it is a well defined information at that moment of observation. Yeah, like the natural numbers can't be infinite because the number 5 exists. What does "the moment of reality" even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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