SiameseSam Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) The traditional definition of a desert is an area that has below a certain level of rainfall, but I say that definition isnt clear enough. While most of Antarctica is cold and frozen (considered a desert continent), beneath the snow, it looks barren like a desert (McMurdo valley photos are the perfect example of this.). Many sources classify tundra as desert because of low rainfall, but that doesnt make that much sense either. Low rainfall of tundra doesnt make the vegetation look barren like in Arizona. Tundras are full of green grass and moss-they are far more moist than the ground and vegetation of most low rainfall areas.. Because of that, some scientific sources classify tundra as seperate from desert, because of how the amount of low rainfall effecting its vegetation differs from how low rainfall affects vegitation in other areas. Amount of rainfall that affects vegetation depends on temperature, and tundra is very cold. Another example is-the Okanagan region of Canada, while being dry, has far more lush vegitation than a desert, but some consider it to be a desert because of its low rainfall, despite simply being shrub steppe.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrub-steppe Also, there are certain areas that dont have low rainfall, but the rainfall affects soil moisture and vegitation in ways very similar to a desert, like the Highlands of Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highlands_of_Iceland), and the Kau Desert of Hawaii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka%CA%BB%C5%AB_Desert). Do you think those regions fit the definition of a desert? Other areas in which there is low rainfall and a desertlike appearence, some dont classify them as being "true deserts" because they dont fall under a certain level of rainfall. Examples of this would include regions in Spain and Washington State, like the Tabernas region of Spain, and the Channeled Scrublands of Eastern WA. Edited January 8, 2015 by SiameseSam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveworlds Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You could take snow too. Some languages have thousands of words for snow. We have snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Some languages have thousands of words for snow. No they don't. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-01-17/features/0701160310_1_yupik-eskimo-language-language-log We have snow. And sleet, dry snow, fluffy snow, slush, hail, powder, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseSam Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 You could take snow too. Some languages have thousands of words for snow. We have snow. What does that have to do with what I said about deserts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) You could define a desert as land area that is very low in or devoid of humus which is essential to a stable and diverse ecology. That covers sandy deserts and the poles. Edited January 8, 2015 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseSam Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 You could define a desert as land area that is very low in or devoid of humus which is essential to a stable and diverse ecology. That covers sandy deserts and the poles. The North Pole isnt even a landmass. How can it be a desert? Also, some scientists dont classify as tundra as desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The North Pole isnt even a landmass. How can it be a desert? Also, some scientists dont classify as tundra as desert. Ok. exclude the North Pole. What I'm looking for in a definition is a common feature that defines all deserts and is exclusive to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseSam Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ok. exclude the North Pole. What I'm looking for in a definition is a common feature that defines all deserts and is exclusive to them. Do you think tundra is desert? I personally dont think it is, because having no trees doesnt make it a desert, and because the vegetation and soil looks nothing like a desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Do you think tundra is desert? I personally dont think it is, because having no trees doesnt make it a desert, and because the vegetation and soil looks nothing like a desert. I think the ground needs to be inhospitable to a vigorous, densely populated and diverse ecosystem to qualify as a desert. That's why I mentioned humus. If the ground has humus the conditions suit a varied ecosystem and is not desert. Humus will blow away if it has no moisture, plant cover to hold it together and stuff dying on it to keep it going ...it's composted living material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Here you have the classic situation of a common or garden English word being given a specific meaning for use in one or more scientific disciplines. It is important not to mix these meanings and use the appropriate one in the appropriate place. Most scientific uses stress the low rainfall, English use stresses the emptiness. What would you call a high rainfall land area that was in a warm part of the globe, but (almost or completely) devoid of vegetation? Edited January 8, 2015 by studiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Do you think tundra is desert? I personally dont think it is, because having no trees doesnt make it a desert, and because the vegetation and soil looks nothing like a desert. I don't know if the tundra is a desert. However, if I wanted to reach a conclusion on that issue I wouldn't ask what it looked like- I'd ask how much it rains there- because that's the basis on which the distinction between desert and non desert is made. (Strictly, I think it's precipitation, rather than rain but...). I'd not ask what it looks like- or even what it smells like- because that's not what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseSam Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't know if the tundra is a desert. However, if I wanted to reach a conclusion on that issue I wouldn't ask what it looked like- I'd ask how much it rains there- because that's the basis on which the distinction between desert and non desert is made. (Strictly, I think it's precipitation, rather than rain but...). I'd not ask what it looks like- or even what it smells like- because that's not what matters. True, but the amount of rainfall needed for cold areas to support vegetation is lower than in warm areas. Thats why tundra is classified by some scientists as seperate from desert. Rainfall isnt the only thing that defines desert. Iceland and Hawaii are two examples of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 What would you call a high rainfall land area that was in a warm part of the globe, but (almost or completely) devoid of vegetation? "Unexpected" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseSam Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 "Unexpected" how dry do you think an area has to be to be considered a desert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 how dry do you think an area has to be to be considered a desert? How dry does an area need to be before it is considered agricultural? The question doesn't make sense because the issue of whether an area is agricultural or not is not defined by how wet it is. Perhaps the best answer would be, if it's too dry for people to live there without having to bring in food and water, it's a desert.- of course that would include luxury ocean liners. It's all down to the definitions- pick whichever one you like; but always say what definition you are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiameseSam Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 How dry does an area need to be before it is considered agricultural? The question doesn't make sense because the issue of whether an area is agricultural or not is not defined by how wet it is. Perhaps the best answer would be, if it's too dry for people to live there without having to bring in food and water, it's a desert.- of course that would include luxury ocean liners. It's all down to the definitions- pick whichever one you like; but always say what definition you are using. Is rainfall the only factor that you would define a desert by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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