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Saltwater crocodile vs great white shark?


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#1 Fanghur

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 02:46 AM

I was recently watching an episode of Animal Face-off involving a saltwater crocodile vs a great white shark; now I'm not a PhD zoologist, but can someone tell me whether or not this fight is at all realistic?



I mean I know that great whites are very skilled hunters, as are saltwater crocodiles, but would these two animals even dare go after each other in the wild? I always thought that unless they are defending their young, predators usually avoid attacking other predators that are the same size as they are. And if they did, is there anyway that the shark would even survive that final bite from the crocodile (the two go straight at each other and the croc bites the shark with all its strength straight between the shark's top jaw; ie the crocodile's lower jaw was pressed to the inside of the sharks upper jaw, and the crocodile's upper jaw was pressed against the outside of the shark's upper jaw). Or want to continue the fight after having its fin torn off by the crocodile?

This is an entertaining show, but I can't believe that a shark would possibly want to continue fighting after taking the beating that it did; not to mention the fact that with only one fin the shark would have a hard time swimming straightly. Any thoughts?

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#2 Hypercube

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 03:32 AM

I agree with Fanghur; there is no way that a shark would survive that last bite; an average size saltwater crocodile (~15 feet) has a bite force of ~5000 pounds; so a salty that's 23 feet long would have a bite force of approximately 6500 pounds. A great white shark's face is basically just cartilage, so it would be crushed when the croc bit down on it; not to mention the fact that even if the shark did survive that bite, most of its top teeth would have been broken off.

As for whether they would go after each other; I'd have to say that it is unlikely, because you are correct; for the most part an animal will not attack another animal that is as large or larger than itself unless it is an animal that it knows that it can take on. Buffalo are one of a lion's primary prey, and they are larger than the lions. You are also most likely correct that even if a great white did pick a fight with a salty, it would almost certainly retreat after being bitten on its tail and after having its pectoral fin bitten off, because sharks need them in order to steer. Point is, the Saltwater Crocodile should have won that fight.

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#3 Mokele

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 12:30 AM

Firstly, it's bullshit from the get-go - salties are inhabitants of the warm tropics, and will avoid cold water whenever possible, while great whites inhabit cold waters and only rarely venture beyond that.

Second, the entire fight sequence is BS. Crocs do *not* travel long distances underwater (they swim at the surface), sharks generally are cautious around anything that seems "new" or "odd", crocs do not ram things underwater with their mouths open, animals retreat when wounded (or even if the fight looks avoidable), and the head-to-head ramming thing was assinine.


That show is everything that is wrong with modern science "documentaries". I've seen bits of a few episodes (usually passed around the bio department to laugh at) and the errors are absolutely astounding - this is stuff they could have fixed by looking at Wikipedia.

Jurassic Park was more scientifically informative than that show.
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#4 Fanghur

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 01:14 AM

Thank you Mokele; that tirade was very enlightening, but you didn't answer my question. And for your information saltwater crocodiles have been seen in the ocean and even with shark remains in their stomachs.
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#5 toastywombel

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 01:20 AM

Thank you Mokele; that tirade was very enlightening, but you didn't answer my question. And for your information saltwater crocodiles have been seen in the ocean and even with shark remains in their stomachs.


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#6 Fanghur

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 04:50 PM

OK, it seems I must be more direct; could a great white shark survive being bitten full in the face by a 23 foot saltwater crocodile? That's all I want to know.
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#7 toastywombel

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 05:35 PM

OK, it seems I must be more direct; could a great white shark survive being bitten full in the face by a 23 foot saltwater crocodile? That's all I want to know.


The largest certifiable record for a saltwater crocodile is 20 feet first off. Secondly that is a rather ridiculous question with the answer probably not. One could also ask, would a 20 foot saltwater crocodile survive a direct bite to the face by a great white shark? Again probably not.
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#8 Moontanman

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 06:17 PM

I would ask would a 20' great white allow it's self to be bit in that manner. Great whites are ambush predators. If the salty was swimming in the ocean he would never see the shark coming, the shark would bite a huge chunk out of him and go off and wait for the croc to die as the great white does to other large prey items. If the salty caught the great white in an inshore bay the croc might be able to kill the shark.

They showed a battle between a black bear and a alligator on that show as well, it was bullshite.

I wanted to see a fight between a Siberian Tiger and a Kodiak Bear, that should be a close match up.
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#9 Mokele

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 03:03 AM

Thank you Mokele; that tirade was very enlightening, but you didn't answer my question. And for your information saltwater crocodiles have been seen in the ocean and even with shark remains in their stomachs.


But not in the same parts of the ocean as great whites - just like the land, different animals live in different parts of the ocean, and temperature is a big factor. There are warm-water sharks and cold-water sharks. Great-whites are cold-water sharks, while salt-water crocs will only swim in warm waters.

could a great white shark survive being bitten full in the face by a 23 foot saltwater crocodile? That's all I want to know.


No. As powerful as sharks are, their head is mostly just ossified cartilage, which could not sustain the damage a large saltwater crocodile could inflict.

Of course, the whole thing is moot due to the stupidity of the entire program, but eh.
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#10 jess

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Posted 2 July 2010 - 04:15 AM

Salt water crocodiles and great white sharks can be found in the same area but it is quite rare I wouldn't be surprised if they found a croc around Brisbane.

Australia is infested with dangerous animals including the great white and crocodile.

I grew up around crocodile infested water all my life and before you swim in your own pool always check and make sure there are no crocs because it is not rare.
.Crocodiles do not stay at the surfaces infect they can hold there breath longer then any whale and dolphin they can hold there breath well over 5 hours.
.They can hide in 1foot deep water without being detected.
.Can jump out of water almost there full body length.
.They can run on land 20k and hour were the average human can only run 5k.
.Never climb up a tree if a croc is around for they can slow there metabolism for weeks waiting for you to come down.
.Crocodiles do not like fresh meat they will gard there food and take it to
there nest for it to rot.
.Crocs can watch its pray for weeks so it can find out your daily schedule say if you had a swim in the after noon every day the croc will find that out and the next afternoon you might not be so lucky.
Crocs are definitely amazing super animals.

Great white sharks
.nice thick skin
.great hunters
.hundreds of teeth (can grow back fast)
.hates other sharks
.feed of fish that are distressed or bleeding
and you are more likely to escape from a great white.

That documentary was bull the shark wouldn't be interested and the croc would stalk the shark and camouflage the Croc would only attack a shark if it was over territory which is the case then when the croc is ready to attack the shark wouldn't no what hit him until it was to late.

The documentary

Ok if this was how it happened these are the major problems.
1. Shark wouldn't be able to swim straight.
2. the shark was bleeding which would of attracted other sharks so its screwed any way.
3. when the Crocodile did half of a death roll it flipped them up side down which puts the shark in a sleep mode it wouldn't of been able to turn its self around so it would of drowned.

sharks need to keep moving so they can process the water through there gills even when they sleep they swim.
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#11 thebigapple

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:27 PM

Now theirs one thing I have to say about you people( admins please do not talk this as an insult I am gunna make a point) your all foolish! You listening to a show that's been off air for years. First off the strongest biting animal is the cookie cutter shark they've sent submarines back to base by biting the rubber of the sonar at the tip of the submarine that's heavy duty stuff. Second these salties and whites would never encounter they just wouldn't. Let me tell you somethings I know. The saltwatercroc would reach about 25 ft not the biggest though the Orinoco is. The white length recorded is 36ft at 10tons. I didnt see the episode but it's all fake. The is in it's true element salt water not only that salt water crocodile doesn't even live in salt water it'll swim in it but not live. The white is also at bite force of 5tons per square inch not foot inch or something like that. Crocs are also mush slower then whites and the crocs are built lighter and has more fat on the body. Sharks literally have no fat and few pain nerves they are solid muscle also you underestimate a shark when a shark is turned inside down you have to do something to make it ominous this is called tonic. It's used during shark breeding. Also you people that say a shark needs to move to live that's true but not true sharks can stay still for a certain time maybe seconds not only that great resting is shutting down their eyes and gliding down on the shelf of the ocean to keep water flowing. The shark head is not only cartilage you fools it's bone and solid muscle and you all say cartilage is week the cartilage in shark is denser then bone but flexible so if any says other wise they better do their homework sharks are top predators on the planet nothing beats them unless your stupid stand on two legs and have a front lobe and need guns to kill something this is all correct info but a saltie and white would never encounter unless other wise or forced them to fight its just not realistic. Also the croc needs air the animal that has lungs and swims that can hold their breath longest is the sperm whale they can hold breath underwater for 3 hours and much more but not likely. On top of that they hunt in pressure that would kill a crocodile so they need a big head and lungs I wanna see a croc do that hahahaha it's just not gunna happen. Okay Jess your being inrealistic the metabolism thing is for the alligator not only that the bullshark has the ampullae or lorenzini the shrk doesn't need eyes it's pretty much built in sonar. Not only that shark probably or I guarantee already knew that croc was their. The croc is alot on eyesight. Not only that the shows too unrealistic not many sharks would come if it's high high distress they won't go to them you are all lacking your common sense that croc would be bit in half the force of being hit would kill it. The whites ram those elephant seals but those seals have the durabilty and build to withstand it the croc isn't you need to look at how they hunt how they prey and how they kill. The white will also ram the croc from underneath the croc would not know it.
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#12 HerpetologyFangirl

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Posted 9 December 2010 - 12:28 PM

That was the worst video I've ever watched. Whoever made it clearly didn't know the first thing about salt-water crocs and great whites. They should be drawn and quatered for allowing such rubbish to be shown on a respectable channel like Discovery. *shakes head*

Edited by HerpetologyFangirl, 9 December 2010 - 12:29 PM.

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#13 Aziz

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:57 PM

Only 16 so bear with me here if i say something wrong...

The whole context of that episode and its other episodes are sabotaged and wrong, the lion wouldn't beat a tiger that has it in a grip, nor would a black bear beat an alligator nor would a gorilla kung-fu a leopard in midair nor would a brown bear survive the blows an Amur tiger inflicts....but regarding this topic, overall the right animal one because the Great White Shark is usually bigger and faster than the Saltwater Croc, however in context of what happened the Croc should have one, it savagely injured the shark by ripping its fin off meaning it wouldn't swim straight and then should have induced tonic immobility when it flipped the shark over...and once the shark loses its fin it should be scrambling for safety, it's not cowardice it's just that animal-safety impulse implemented within all creatures.

However i have NEVER seen a shark come ramming into an animal out of curiosity, it comes in full-force with its teeth unsheathed. Although in a normal and purely-fair battleground the shark would win because it's adapted better for underwater combat, these two creatures subsist on different climates of water firstly, wouldn't come directly attacking either and nor would the shark be so easily bitten apart and then somehow survive?

It's a good thing they didn't include the Orca in this, every beautiful and powerful animal in this got cheated, and I'd be feeling scandalous if the Orca got cheated.

I wish David Attenborough would come out and express something on this Animal Face-Off Show, he'd probably laugh and construe to them all how it's all utter bullshit.
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#14 Tres Juicy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 02:04 PM

Hypothetically, if they were forced to fight (underwater Roman colluseum?) the crocodile would always win, the shark being the softer bodied of the two would sustain much more damage from every bite.

Personally, I would punch them both out without any trouble and they would not attack me again (I call it percussive conditioning)
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#15 slavenenco

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Posted 1 March 2012 - 10:30 PM

Is there such a case recorded anywhere???
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#16 Phi for All

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Posted 1 March 2012 - 10:40 PM

Personally, I would punch them both out without any trouble and they would not attack me again (I call it percussive conditioning)

A drummer with no hands, interesting concept.

Is there such a case recorded anywhere???

No.
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#17 Moontanman

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Posted 2 March 2012 - 12:10 AM

It's all absolute silliness, Crocs specialize in grabbing prey off the land, in the open ocean the croc would never know what hit him, a shark confined to a small bay might be vulnerable but it would always know where the croc was due to it's sensory organs, organs the croc does not have.... just silly to compare the two...
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#18 too-open-minded

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:20 AM

If your in open water, great white hands down. If your in a saltwater marsh, crock has the win.

Although just like MMA, anything can happen if you get hit on the button.
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#19 Godzillasaurus

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

Crocodiles are no less deadly than sharks. Although their dentition is very different, and they have an entirely different lifestyle, crocodiles are still very deadly animals. In my opinion, the shark should have been crippled from the get-go when the crocodile bit its pre-maxilla. The largest crocodilians (excluding the Indian gharial) can have a bite force between 3,500 to possibly over 5,000 pounds. The pointed, conical teeth belonging to the crocodile in conjunction with the very high bite force is a very deadly concoction. However, the idea that the crocodile had an immediate disadvantage when compared to the shark in open ocean is logical.



It's all absolute silliness, Crocs specialize in grabbing prey off the land, in the open ocean the croc would never know what hit him, a shark confined to a small bay might be vulnerable but it would always know where the croc was due to it's sensory organs, organs the croc does not have.... just silly to compare the two...

Crocs actually have sensory organs all over the body (as opposed to alligators which have them only in the jaw area). And yes, crocs DO specialize in gripping, as their teeth are long and conical as opposed to thin and serrated. But what your post is lacking is elaboration on that subject. Gharials and slender-snouted crocodiles are actually best adapted for gripping aquatic prey. Of course, gharials and other slender-snouted crocodilians do not take down sharks, but you get the point. And have you seen what a croc can do to a zebra? Watch this: (Beware, this video is gorey. Do NOT watch if you are squeamish)

 



I would ask would a 20' great white allow it's self to be bit in that manner. Great whites are ambush predators. If the salty was swimming in the ocean he would never see the shark coming, the shark would bite a huge chunk out of him and go off and wait for the croc to die as the great white does to other large prey items. If the salty caught the great white in an inshore bay the croc might be able to kill the shark.

They showed a battle between a black bear and a alligator on that show as well, it was bullshite.

I wanted to see a fight between a Siberian Tiger and a Kodiak Bear, that should be a close match up.

And what makes you think the crocodile wouldn't be able to kill the shark in open ocean? The bite that the croc had on the shark's head should have been deadly enough, let alone ripping the shark's f*cking fin off! The bite of a saltwater crocodile has been measured are over 3,500 pounds. Unless there is proof that the shark's head could withstand that much pressure, you don't have much leverage. Oh yea, and crocs are ambush hunters as well...



The saltwatercroc would reach about 25 ft not the biggest though the Orinoco is.The white is also at bite force of 5tons per square inch not foot inch or something like that. Crocs are also mush slower then whites and the crocs are built lighter and has more fat on the body

Nope. Saltwater crocodiles are the largest living reptile. The Orinoco is even small compared to the Nile crocodile and possibly the American crocodile. Crocodiles have stronger bite forces than sharks due to their more "force" adapted way of killing. Where is your proof that crocodiles have more fat in the body than sharks do? Crocodiles are very muscular as well


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#20 Moontanman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:02 AM

I still say the comparison is silly. like asking if a Kodiak bear or a great white shark would win, so many depends upon it makes no sense, which is better apples or oranges.? 

 

Depending on the environment either or both have problems, now if you want to compare apples and apples lets talk great white and killer whale... 

 

And by the way, no crocodilian has sense organs that even come close to comparing with a shark, a shark can sense your beating heart by the electrical impulses from far away, in the open ocean a crocodile would be in serious trouble, in an estuarine environment the shark would be in more serious trouble... 

 

It would almost certainly depend on who grabbed who first... 


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