Handy andy

Is anyone suspicious about an after life

72 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Prometheus said:

I'm Buddhist. Am i not welcome?

I suspect I am the only one not welcome on this forum, but I enjoy asking questions, and enjoy the insults as well as the interesting inputs.

Is your form of Buddhism just a way of life and not really a religion. ?

The thread is about suspicions of an afterlife, I understand you don't believe in an afterlife, except through what you do in this life echoing on into the future. Would you like to add something.?

I have nothing further to add on this thread, except I do not think doctor who is anything to do with the thread :)

 

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On 7/30/2017 at 5:52 PM, Handy andy said:

I suspect I am the only one not welcome on this forum, but I enjoy asking questions, and enjoy the insults as well as the interesting inputs.

I suspect you are very welcome. Communities like this grow stagnant without someone stirring the faecal matter.

 

On 7/30/2017 at 5:52 PM, Handy andy said:

Is your form of Buddhism just a way of life and not really a religion. ?

The thread is about suspicions of an afterlife, I understand you don't believe in an afterlife, except through what you do in this life echoing on into the future. Would you like to add something.?

A religion is a way of life. 

I don't even believe in a self, so the concept of an afterlife makes no sense at all.

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5 hours ago, Prometheus said:

I suspect you are very welcome. Communities like this grow stagnant without someone stirring the faecal matter.

 

A religion is a way of life. 

I don't even believe in a self, so the concept of an afterlife makes no sense at all.

I think there may be differing opinions on this, but since I enjoy stirring things up, I might keep going :) 

Yes religion is a way of life, the problem I have with it today and historically it has become like a hand reaching out from the past, holding some societies in the dark ages who then try to drag others down with them. Religious moderation most people can live with, fanaticism we cant.

No self, I think is open to interpretation in some forms of Buddhism, and is more to do with letting go of ego.

I guess you don't have any hair raising ghost stories to share for amusement, except to state you don't believe in life after death of any kind.

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3 minutes ago, Handy andy said:

Yes religion is a way of life, the problem I have with it today and historically it has become like a hand reaching out from the past, holding some societies in the dark ages who then try to drag others down with them. Religious moderation most people can live with, fanaticism we cant.

I agree. 

4 minutes ago, Handy andy said:

No self, I think is open to interpretation in some forms of Buddhism, and is more to do with letting go of ego.

Buddhism can be quite flexible in what its followers believe, but the concept of anatta, non-self, is integral. 

6 minutes ago, Handy andy said:

I guess you don't have any hair raising ghost stories to share for amusement, except to state you don't believe in life after death of any kind.

I have a sleep disorder which causes me to hallucinate all manner of things, including many ghosties and demons when i was younger.

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1 minute ago, Prometheus said:

I agree. 

Buddhism can be quite flexible in what its followers believe, but the concept of anatta, non-self, is integral. 

I have a sleep disorder which causes me to hallucinate all manner of things, including many ghosties and demons when i was younger.

Anatta is no permanent self, it does not exclude a changing evolving self throughout this life, or multiple lifes. Maybe I am wrong.

Tell us more, possible ghosties or just imaginings?

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Hallucinations. Or i've really chatted to severed heads and such things. Wasn't until i was in late teens that i came across a scientific explanation. It was far more consistent than the supernatural explanations.

 

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18 minutes ago, Prometheus said:

Hallucinations. Or i've really chatted to severed heads and such things. Wasn't until i was in late teens that i came across a scientific explanation. It was far more consistent than the supernatural explanations.

 

Mushrooms ?

Consistently stating you don't believe until science proves something does not make it fact.

Super waves happened a long time before scientists discovered them.

China men walking over your grave when hearing a good ghost story, is an amusing effect. Did the ghost stories on post one give you the shivers.

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1 hour ago, Handy andy said:

Mushrooms ?

No, i said a sleep disorder: ISP.

1 hour ago, Handy andy said:

Consistently stating you don't believe until science proves something does not make it fact.

Super waves happened a long time before scientists discovered them.

China men walking over your grave when hearing a good ghost story, is an amusing effect. Did the ghost stories on post one give you the shivers.

You've lost me.

I don't believe in an afterlife. I would change my belief with sufficient evidence. My belief either way does not change the reality.

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Maybe you listen to too much music before you go to sleep , i hallucinate a lot too if i do that

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No, hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations of a certain kind are a well documented feature of isolated sleep paralysis (ISP). It's not mushrooms, not music, not anything else, just sleep paralysis. 

I suspect that such hallucinations have gone some way in shaping humanity's perceptions of death, the spirit realm and such, given the hallucinations are often of a horrific/demonic nature and approximately 40% of the population will experience it at least once in their life. (Similar theories exist for the American phenomenon of alien abductions). Hard to convince someone demons don't exist when you have seen (and felt) them yourselves - especially back when the nature of hallucinations were not understood.

Never heard of music causing hallucinations before. Do your hallucinations influence your ideas about life after death?

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On ‎01‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 8:08 PM, Prometheus said:

No, i said a sleep disorder: ISP.

 

 

19 hours ago, Prometheus said:

No, hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations of a certain kind are a well documented feature of isolated sleep paralysis (ISP). It's not mushrooms, not music, not anything else, just sleep paralysis. 

I suspect that such hallucinations have gone some way in shaping humanity's perceptions of death, the spirit realm and such, given the hallucinations are often of a horrific/demonic nature and approximately 40% of the population will experience it at least once in their life. (Similar theories exist for the American phenomenon of alien abductions). Hard to convince someone demons don't exist when you have seen (and felt) them yourselves - especially back when the nature of hallucinations were not understood.

Never heard of music causing hallucinations before. Do your hallucinations influence your ideas about life after death?

The links are very interesting, not having a sleep disorder I was not aware of these sleep issues. I don't hallucinate either, although I am extremely good at visualising things working, including gozzintas and factories etc.

The first post I made ref the ghost stories, was an actual story from my youth experienced by several of my friends at the same time, are you suggesting this was a group hallucination ? All of my mates experienced the hair standing up and cold shivers on entering the morgue, and all of us heard the doors repeatedly slamming, which was when we dived out of the windows rather than going to investigate :) it was a calm wind less night, I still has me a bit suspicious.

Ref Aliens :) My great uncle who died before the first world war told my mother that he had seen a glowing disc shaped object land in a field, and little people get out, and start collecting stuff around said disc. He was outstanding in his field being a farmer, with a fork. On approaching said little folk with his fork, they stopped doing what they were doing and flew off. Prior to first world war Biggles flew biplanes, not glowing discs. 

 Why shouldn't Aliens with different technologies exist and visit the planet. They could be the original solar gods depicted inside the Egyptian tombs :) . The pharaohs might actually have been speaking to little alien chaps. If you happen to read the old testament literally it actually gets quite interesting if one assumes god descending from heaven was a group of chaps in a flying solar disc. The little people could be responsible for the religious belief in gods that exists today. The Jews were the chosen people and they are waiting for ET to return and rule the earth etc. Perhaps religious folk should be reading their stories literally :( 

 

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Posted (edited)

On 2017-07-03 at 3:17 PM, Handy andy said:

Physics is based on a set of axioms, which postulate the existence of entities such as atoms, particles, forces, charges, mass, and/or fields. All these entities could be better described as fields of one form or another, which exist in space or are a part of space, making up the entire infinite universe.

 

Religious leaders historically gain influence over people by it's use of the fear of death and promises of an afterlife whereby you can sit on a clouds or be waited on by 40 virgins, the sex of which I guess is down to personal preference and availability of virgins.

 

 

My views are atheist in that I do not believe in a god. However is it possible that there is life after death.

 

 

Shamanism, which involves the belief in an afterlife and the existence of spirits or deities, is possibly one of the oldest belief systems in the world and has become a part of some new age religious ideas.

 

 

http://parascience.org/images/Shamanism_and_Sacrifice.pdf

 

 

Many people claim to have experienced out of body experiences when close to death, or to have experienced some form of ghost. Most of this can be explained away by bad lighting and a vivid imagination etc.

 

 

When diving deep on normal air, around 40m you suffer oxygen deprivation and your ability to think or reason properly goes out of the window, you also experience a sensation of tranquility, or total calm. Could this be what is experienced close to death?

 

 

People suffering from brain damage can change their personality, without a functioning brain what thoughts could we have after death?

 

 

If something of us lives on after death in some form of field what if anything could it do or recall. ?

 

 

To get people started here is a couple of ghost stories.

 

 

A friend of mine believed she used to live in a haunted house with her family, and this particular ghost was very active when small children were in the house. One night the parents were out and the youngest girl was being looked after by her older sisters. She was quite upset by the ghost, the older girl had a boyfriend around, so to calm the baby of the family, he agreed to take the ghost home with him in his car. When he got home he looked in the rear view mirror of his car and looking back at him in the rear seat of his car was an apparition. He leapt out of the car and ran.

 

 

Lots of years ago a friend of mine acquired a job as a gardener in a stately home, and he agreed to give a group of us a guided tour around the house and grounds whilst the owners were away, at around midnight, he guided us from room to room giving little bits of history including several ghost stories relating to the house. We walked down a long passageway with many heavy wooden doors, finally arriving in a disused chapel which was full of junk; the windows of the chapel were open. My friend opened the door to the former morgue which was empty, and on going inside the temperature dropped and the hair on the back of our necks rose. The doors in the passageway we had travelled down started banging repeatedly. We became a little alarmed and jumped out of the windows of the chapel, and retired to the converted stables where my friend was lodging. Could a wind have caused the doors to bang like that? It was a still night, I do not think it was the wind, and the cause remains a mystery. Other unexplained things happened that night, but some were one or more of us playing tricks, on each other.

 

 

The first of the above stories, if true, would indicate the ghost did as was asked; the second, if not the wind, would indicate that the ghost may not have been happy about us being in the house disturbing its peace and reacted to encourage us to leave. Wind or not, we left very quickly not by the passage way we had entered by.

 

 

I don’t believe in Magic either but.

 

 

Wiccans believe in the manipulation of the spirits to help things to happen, could a Wiccan with a friendly poltergeist get things done.

 

 

(Wicca is based around Rosicrutianism which some famous people follow as well as historical figures http://www.secretsocietieswebsite.com/members-rosicrucians/)

 

 

Without reference to religion does anyone suspect there may be an afterlife of sorts? Reincarnation, Transmigration, etc.

 

 

Consciousness is the results of neurons. Damage can lead to brain dead, coma or injury leading to death.There is no soul or life force that holds consciousness or the results of brain injury or concussion would not effect consciousness.

Any medical disease effecting speech, memory, thought, IQ, motivation,wants and needs and reasoning would not be effected because the soul or life force would hold and have consciousness not part of the human body.  Such medical disease would not exist..And also brain injury or concussion would not exist.

If by you mean spirit or soul nothing more than life force energy aka spark life not part of consciousness like speech, memory, thought, IQ, motivation,wants and needs and reasoning and million other things that effect the brain. Than neuroscience have not found it.

And no medical test or scan have found any life force energy aka spark life.

And no one seen this life force energy enter baby and leave dead body.

 

Edited by nec209
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On 05/08/2017 at 10:58 AM, Handy andy said:

The first post I made ref the ghost stories, was an actual story from my youth experienced by several of my friends at the same time, are you suggesting this was a group hallucination ? 

No, no. I can't give an explanation for that. I'm only saying that ISP likely accounts for a significant number of ghost stories and other-worldly experiences.

 

On 05/08/2017 at 10:58 AM, Handy andy said:

Why shouldn't Aliens with different technologies exist and visit the planet. 

Again, i'm not saying anything about whether aliens exist, only that a good number of alien abduction stories are very likely manifestations of ISP.

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Posted (edited)

On 7/31/2017 at 2:52 AM, Handy andy said:

I suspect I am the only one not welcome on this forum, but I enjoy asking questions, and enjoy the insults as well as the interesting inputs.

Join the club....They didn't have a ticker tape parade for me either.:(:P

On 8/5/2017 at 7:58 PM, Handy andy said:

 

The links are very interesting, not having a sleep disorder I was not aware of these sleep issues. I don't hallucinate either, although I am extremely good at visualising things working, including gozzintas and factories etc.

The first post I made ref the ghost stories, was an actual story from my youth experienced by several of my friends at the same time, are you suggesting this was a group hallucination ? All of my mates experienced the hair standing up and cold shivers on entering the morgue, and all of us heard the doors repeatedly slamming, which was when we dived out of the windows rather than going to investigate :) it was a calm wind less night, I still has me a bit suspicious.

Ref Aliens :) My great uncle who died before the first world war told my mother that he had seen a glowing disc shaped object land in a field, and little people get out, and start collecting stuff around said disc. He was outstanding in his field being a farmer, with a fork. On approaching said little folk with his fork, they stopped doing what they were doing and flew off. Prior to first world war Biggles flew biplanes, not glowing discs. 

 Why shouldn't Aliens with different technologies exist and visit the planet. They could be the original solar gods depicted inside the Egyptian tombs :) . The pharaohs might actually have been speaking to little alien chaps. If you happen to read the old testament literally it actually gets quite interesting if one assumes god descending from heaven was a group of chaps in a flying solar disc. The little people could be responsible for the religious belief in gods that exists today. The Jews were the chosen people and they are waiting for ET to return and rule the earth etc. Perhaps religious folk should be reading their stories literally :( 

 

While I personally believe as do most scientists that we are certainly not alone in this big wide wonderous universe, there is as yet no evidence indicating other life anywhere, and there is absolutely no convincing evidence of any Alien visitation to Earth, nor for any other type of supernatural/paranormal happening. 99% of UFO's for example, have been scientifically and logically explained away by other means, and the remaining 1% remains as unexplained or unidentified. That's what the U stands for.

The same goes for most  paranormal and supernatural claims. The point to consider in reality is that any confirmation of ETL, would be  a momentous event in human history for many reasons, and as such, and as Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.

That of course also applies to any and all paranormal and supernatural claims.

Edited by beecee
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19 hours ago, beecee said:

Join the club....They didn't have a ticker tape parade for me either.:(:P

While I personally believe as do most scientists that we are certainly not alone in this big wide wonderous universe, there is as yet no evidence indicating other life anywhere, and there is absolutely no convincing evidence of any Alien visitation to Earth, nor for any other type of supernatural/paranormal happening. 99% of UFO's for example, have been scientifically and logically explained away by other means, and the remaining 1% remains as unexplained or unidentified. That's what the U stands for.

The same goes for most  paranormal and supernatural claims. The point to consider in reality is that any confirmation of ETL, would be  a momentous event in human history for many reasons, and as such, and as Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.

That of course also applies to any and all paranormal and supernatural claims.

It would be an extra ordinary claim to state that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist. As for aliens on the planet, you don't have to look any further than Donald Trump. :)

The idea that humans are an intelligent species that an alien who was smart enough to get here would want to communicate with, is a bit of a leap of faith, it might be more interesting to communicate with a tree. Maybe Aliens are where the concept of gods coming down from heaven etc come from. :) . Perhaps looking at the pyramids and solar deities, or reading anything religious they should be taken literally, the aliens come down from the sky and are like gods. Scarily if this was the case, then they have been around along time, and are the root cause of religion and all the religious hate we have on the planet today. Alternatively someone could have just dreamt them up and the Aliens are imaginary thingy's.

How one would travel from one solar system to another is interesting, perhaps folding space. This is far enough of topic to get the thread closed.

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1 hour ago, Handy andy said:

It would be an extra ordinary claim to state that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist. As for aliens on the planet, you don't have to look any further than Donald Trump. :).

+1 for this.

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5 hours ago, Handy andy said:

It would be an extra ordinary claim to state that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist. As for aliens on the planet, you don't have to look any further than Donald Trump. :)

Totally agree with your first sentence On your second sentence, I am reluctant to comment on why a nation generally seen as the leader of the free world, would elect the likes of whom they did elect..Flabbergasted is an understatement. :wacko:

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On 2017-08-08 at 2:28 PM, Prometheus said:

No, no. I can't give an explanation for that. I'm only saying that ISP likely accounts for a significant number of ghost stories and other-worldly experiences.

 

Again, i'm not saying anything about whether aliens exist, only that a good number of alien abduction stories are very likely manifestations of ISP.

So you are saying people that see ghosts or entity beings that are not made up up matter and passing through hard solids like wall or concrete is because of brain hallucinating? Same thing people that are reporting near death experience where body floating up in sky and see the paramedics or doctors work on them? Or people had near death experience saying they where in heaven?

 

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On 7/23/2017 at 1:45 PM, LabRat1 said:

I can't see why a religious person would be on this forum. Don't get me wrong, there are a few people out there who might indulge into science, but I don't think they'd come this far. Or they might be here on this thread, secretly learning our art and plotting it against us.....waiting for an opportunity to strike...MODERATORS, I DEMAND A THOROUGH SEARCH!

I'm religious.

In fact, I'm so religious that I'm a......dare I say it to you..... a dirty narrow minded christian bigot.

Better find the shotguns for when I plan to hold this science forum hostage for my religious beliefs.

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On 8/12/2017 at 10:16 PM, nec209 said:

So you are saying people that see ghosts or entity beings that are not made up up matter and passing through hard solids like wall or concrete is because of brain hallucinating? Same thing people that are reporting near death experience where body floating up in sky and see the paramedics or doctors work on them? Or people had near death experience saying they where in heaven?

Hallucinating could be one explanation. There might be other reasons for being mistaken. In addition to the hallucinations i had, i would sometimes hear a tapping from the ceiling. I was so fixated on a supernatural explanation that it took me years to work out it was just a wardrobe in another room knocking against the wall when someone walked near it.

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On 2017-08-14 at 11:42 AM, Prometheus said:

Hallucinating could be one explanation. There might be other reasons for being mistaken. In addition to the hallucinations i had, i would sometimes hear a tapping from the ceiling. I was so fixated on a supernatural explanation that it took me years to work out it was just a wardrobe in another room knocking against the wall when someone walked near it.

 

It could also be abnormal brain or brain damage why some people claim they see  ghosts or entity beings or near death experience where body floating up in sky and see the paramedics or doctors work on them!! Or people had a near death experience saying they where in heaven......

 

Or the brain not fully developed at birth.

 

May be a  CT scan or MRI scan to compare two brains of different people to see if any thing looks strange or different?

Edited by nec209
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6 minutes ago, nec209 said:

May be a  CT scan or MRI scan to compare two brains of different people to see if any thing looks strange or different?

That would be quite an interesting experiment, but the practicalities would make it near impossible to perform. The patient would have to be near death, consent obtained from the distraught family, and a medical team would have to satisfy an ethics committee that taking the patient for a spin up for a scan wouldn't compromise their care in any way. Then, if they survive and can communicate, you could ask them if they actually had a near death experience. The majority wouldn't.

There may be historical cases in which people had emergency scans (CT head scans are pretty common in the ED) and later reported a near death experience. There would be no guarantee the scan was taken at the time of the experience.

Death related research is notoriously difficult to conduct.

 

Perhaps possible for ghost experiences - there are some pretty spooky and supposedly haunted hospitals that might house a CT or MRI scanner. It would have to be a very well designed experiment to get good data.

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