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The new Caliphate


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I have to ask, are you sincere in this belief you're espousing in this thread and others that the mass slaughter of fellow humans is the surest path to lasting peace?


Leaving aside for a moment the obvious moral and ethical considerations, from a more practical and even tactical perspective, do you not see any flaws or unintended consequences of pursuing such an approach?

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I am 100% sincere. Of course peaceful solution of the world muslim problem would be preferable to a violent one but a violent solution would be preferable to no solution at all. It does not need to be a genocide - most of them are not extremists so once the extremists got destroyed, the moderates will convert... they just need to be given some incentive, for example being taxed heavily.


What history teaches us is that it is simply impossible to turn ANY muslim country into a modern European-like secular state - even Turkey which for 80 years was a beacon of secularism is slowly turning into an islamist dictatorship. Islam (no matter whether sunni, shia, ibadi or whatever) is utterly incompatible with the principles of democracy, freedom of speech, religion etc. As long as these societies think that the Quran is a word of God, they will never progress. They are stuck in 7th century Arabia and can't go forward. They must be weaned from their religion first. It may be painfull but it will work. Once they do this, there will no longer be anty Al Qaedas, Taliban, ISIS or anything.

Edited by Irbis
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I find your conclusions illogical and your reasoning suggestive of a preference for blood over brotherhood. More interestingly, I find you to be consistently espousing the very mindset you seem to so despise in those you classify as "others" or as "the problem."

Edited by iNow
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Muslims are not my brothers. They destroyed several dozen countries and should not be allowed to destroy anything more. What e.g. ISIS does now is beyond belief - but Arabs have not always been like this. Before Islam they were more pluralistic than at any point ever since. In Mecca alone there were 300 religious artifacts, each belonging to a different tribe (now non Muslims are not even allowed to enter Mecca, making it one of only two cities in the world open to members of only a single religion. The second one is, of course, Medina). Polytheists, Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians lived together, intermarried and converted freely between those religions. Arabs did not even have a concept of religious war or discrimination on the basis of religion. How does it look now? Sunnis hate Shias. Shias hate Sunnis. Both of them hate Christians, Jews and pretty much everyone else. Arabs constantly jump at each other's throat and they are known as a nation of terrorists. A great leap forward, indeed.


The same is also true for Pakistan. Pakistanis are descendants of Hindus. In the ancient era these Hindus were at the forefront of civilization and enjoyed religious freedom comparable to the freedom enjoyed by Western people today. Back then Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and atheists (Carvakas) liced in harmony and any religious conflicts tended to be solved by debates rather than swords. There were examples of Indian states abolishing slavery and death penalty completely, almost 2000 years before the Universal Declatation of Human Rights was drafted. But because the future Pakistanis accepted the psychopathic, sadistic deity of Islam, that craves for the blood of those who refuse to submit to it's despotic rule, they became as cruel and primitive as their god. In 2007 Pakistan introduced blasphemy laws under which people are killed for drawing a cartoon of Muhammad or for leaving Islam. IT's fair to say that Muslims are the only people on earth who are culturally and socially de-evolving.


My anger is simply unimaginable... hhh... I would do ANYTHING just to make sure that Islamism (=Islam) is crushed absolutely to such a degree thata it will NEVER rise again.

Edited by Irbis
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My anger is simply unimaginable... hhh... I would do ANYTHING just to make sure that Islamism is crushed absolutely to such a degree thata it will NEVER rise again.




Your anger is only hurting you and those closest to you; forgive and tolerate and it will abate, better for all, I think.

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Arab Christians have historically been the most progressive group in the Arab world - the leading theoreticians of the 20th century Arab secularism were Christians, they have also been the most prosperous Arab group.




Popular Front India is a primarily muslim, egalitarian organization in India, where muslims are a religious minority.

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Arab Christians have historically been the most progressive group in the Arab world


It is probably interesting to point out that during Islamic rule Arab Christians probably faced less persecution (as heretics) than under Byzantine rule. Also, many high-ranking Palestines were/are Christians, though their number dwindled over time (probably due to economic reasons). It is not clear to me what this has anything to with the topic, though.

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ISIS’s Black Flags Are Flying in Europe


The symbol of the murderous Islamic State is waving in The Hague. ‘Death to the Jews,’ shout the demonstrators. Yet the Dutch government authorized the protests.

“Death to the Jews” chanted the crowd waving the black flags of the Islamic State, or ISIS as it used to be known. They were looking for new supporters for their cause, the creation of a worldwide caliphate answering to the man who now calls himself Ibrahim: a zealot too radical even for Al Qaeda who has stormed through Syria and Iraq carrying out mass executions, crucifying rivals, beheading enemies. But these marchers were not in Syria or Iraq; they were in The Hague in The Netherlands. And their message was one tailored to the disaffected young descendants of Muslim immigrants in Europe.

“We are Moroccans,” went out the cry over a portable loudspeaker. "The French killed the Moroccans but they didn’t kill them all; the grandchildren of the few men left protest against the West, America and the Jews.”

Many of the demonstrators covered their faces with Palestinian scarves or balaclavas. “Anyone who doesn’t jump is a Jew,” someone shouted as the whole group started jumping in a scene that might have been ludicrous if it weren’t for the hateful message. “Death to the Jews!” the crowd shouted in Arabic.

This scene last Thursday came in the wake of an earlier demonstration supposed to defend the Palestinians suffering in Gaza, which turned quickly into a hatefest targeting Israel, with people carrying placards that screamed“Zionism is Nazism.” But while the comingling of pro-Palestinian, anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic sentiment has become all too common in European protests in recent weeks, that the battle flag of the Islamic State waved in the streets of The Netherlands on July 24 is something new and particularly dangerous.

All rallies in Dutch municipalities require permission from the local city council, the police and the public prosecutor’s office. The ISIS demo had been granted permission on the grounds that it was in support of the detained Dutch recruiter for jihad, Oussama Abu Yazeed. But the fact that the mayor’s office in The Hague either was unaware the rally was ISIS-linked or deemed it legitimate regardless has raised serious questions about the city council’s judgment.

Dutch Labor Party (PVDA) member Ahmed Marcouch, a former policeman who sits on the parliament’s security and justice committee, was one of the many who criticized the local government: “Unacceptable!” he tweeted. “Threatening journalists and shouting racist statements is punishable by law.”

Marcouch, who has Moroccan roots himself, wants the Muslim community in The Netherlands to be more vigilant in opposition to ISIS and similar groups. The footage shot at the protest clearly shows a number of very young boys: “What are these kids doing there in the first place?” he asks. “ISIS is pure barbarism, it is bloodthirsty,” Marchouch told The Daily Beast in an interview. “We can’t allow them to win our children away from us.”

Muslims often are criticized for not speaking out strongly enough against the retrograde radicalism of violent jihadists. But Marcouch does not mince his words: “The greatest insult of ISIS may even be toward the Muslims and Islam itself,” he tells us. “I call on the Muslim community: Stand up and don’t allow your religion to be hijacked by these idiots. Don’t make light of them, but make yourself strong against them, these barbaric criminals. Muslims have to speak out: ‘Not in my name! Stay away from my faith!’”

Marcouch has been arguing inside the parliament and out for more fieldworkers from within the community to prevent what he calls “religious derailments”: “You can only prevent this from happening by offering an alternative theological concept,” he says. “The parents play a part in this, too, in how they educate their kids. What’s the matter with you, allowing your kids to run with this lot? The community is much too silent. ‘We’ stand for civilization and modernity and everyone who wants to be a part of that. ‘They’ are those who reject democracy and even use violence. You have to define your opponent sharply.”

Marcouch’s decade serving with the police has taught him the limitations of government institutions. “We are a democracy so we can’t just lock people up whenever we feel like it,” he says. “That’s why expertise is paramount; that’s how you expose them.”

It is not only the people of The Netherlands who are worried. In a letter to Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, Shimon Samuels of the Simon Wiesenthal Center wrote about the concerns of the wider Jewish community when it sees these racist demonstrations espousing the cause of the so-called “Islamic State” that opposes everything about democracy.

Whether the city of The Hague believes racism will simply ebb away when ignored, or just does not take the threat of ISIS seriously enough, is unclear. But ignoring the threat coming from gatherings like this aimed at legitimizing the warmongering of a growing group of fanatical and extremely violent radicals is ill advised. They are trying to win the hearts and minds and expendable bodies of young people, persuading them to go fight alongside the hundreds of Europeans who’ve already joined the gruesome war in Iraq and Syria.

The Hague’s Mayor Jozias van Aartsen recently claimed on Dutch radio that no red lines were crossed by the protests, but such declarations are facing mounting incredulity when pictures circulate on the Web like one posted by an Iraqi-Dutch citizen in the IS-ruled Syrian city of Raqqa. It showed him surrounded by the severed heads of seven men spiked on an iron fence. The photograph looks as if some parts of it may have been faked, but the sentiment is genuine enough. Beheadings, for ISIS, have become a kind of sport.

Many of the young people who end up surviving this horrific war for the caliphate will haunt Europe when they come back home, and security services all over the continent and, indeed, in the United States, are concerned. On Friday the Dutch public prosecutor's office finally announced that an investigation into ISIS in The Netherlands is underway.

One thing is certain, ignoring ISIS will not make it disappear and reasoning with people who want to spike the heads of their adversaries on fences should not be an option.

I like the last sentence. So true.


There is simply no place for these people in Europe. They should be deported to where they came from so that they can keep slitting each other's throats, beheading each other and blowing each other up.


I don't feel too happy seeing people born and raised in Europe, standing in front of severed heads.

Edited by Irbis
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