pritikamehra Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hi guys, I'm relatively new to this topic and website, though a thought just occurred to me. Could anyone offer any views on the idea below? The there are so many forces between matter, and matter (mass) and energy are interchangeable/different manifestations of the same thing. So is there a force of interaction between energy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Energy is a property of physical configurations. An interaction is the exchange of energy and momentum (and maybe other things like spin and electric charge). Therefore I cannot see what one would really mean by an interaction of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Gravity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Gravity? What about gravity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enthalpy Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Every energy creates gravity, and the energy parts of two objects attract an other. For instance the kinetic energy of electrons around a nucleus. Though, Relativity integrists may not call that a "force". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Every energy creates gravity, and the energy parts of two objects attract an other. So energy-momentum is the source of gravity, that is right. Gravity allows objects to exchange energy-momentum, just as the other forces do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.MacSwell Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Hi guys, I'm relatively new to this topic and website, though a thought just occurred to me. Could anyone offer any views on the idea below? The there are so many forces between matter, and matter (mass) and energy are interchangeable/different manifestations of the same thing. So is there a force of interaction between energy? As much of a question as a statement...but from that perspective are not all known forces interactions between energies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritikamehra Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Thanks Enthalpy! The idea of energy creating gravity is quite appealing. Creating a scenario out of this; if there were two gamma rays in a vacuum deep in space, then the gravity created by their energies would cause them to interact with each other, yes? I guess this question really is quite arbitrary and abstract, since as many of you have rightly said, a force is often just an exchange of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The idea of energy creating gravity is quite appealing. According to general relativity it is energy-momentum that acts as the sourse of gravity. This all well established physics Creating a scenario out of this; if there were two gamma rays in a vacuum deep in space, then the gravity created by their energies would cause them to interact with each other, yes? Yes they could interact gravitationally as photons carry energy-momentum. I guess this question really is quite arbitrary and abstract, since as many of you have rightly said, a force is often just an exchange of energy. Abstract we like, but what you have asked is not well-posed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimaMazin Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Yes they could interact gravitationally as photons carry energy-momentum. How?Free photons are massless particles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 How?Free photons are massless particles. GR describes gravity as being caused by energy-momentum, not mass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimaMazin Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 GR describes gravity as being caused by energy-momentum, not mass. And does the gravity interact with massless particles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyzt Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 And does the gravity interact with massless particles? Yes, it does. Google "photon orbits". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Yes, it does. Google "photon orbits". Or gravitational lensing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyzt Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) Or gravitational lensing. yes, Shapiro Delay is another good one. Edited November 28, 2013 by xyzt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enthalpy Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Yes, [two gamma rays in a vacuum deep in space] could interact gravitationally as photons carry energy-momentum. That's an old interrogation I have, still unclear to me... You guessed, I hoped to explain cosmic rays as many photons of lesser energy that stick together somehow. But: two photons travelling together would be stationary to an other, hence have no energy to an other. Or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritikamehra Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Hey Enthalpy, I wasn't exactly thinking of cosmic rays, honestly it was just a completely random thought/scenario I made in my head If we're looking into the photon motion in that much detail, then what causes the photons of one ray of light to coherently travel together? Einstein said that every observer will measure light to be travelling at the speed c. Perhaps, the photons of a particular ray of light also perceive the other photons of that same ray to be travelling at the speed c (they are not stationary relative to one another). This energy-momentum of each individual photon could be the source of gravity that allows these photons from the same ray of light to 'cluster/group' together; hence they move together in the same path? What I'm saying could be completely wrong as I'm just hypothesizing here, but it's just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 ! Moderator Note Discussion specifically on photon attraction has been split http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/80382-gravitational-attraction-of-photons-split/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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