christian walker Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Down here on earth there we have a o zone layer that knocks most of the sunlight too another part of space we use solar panels here on earth right ?Well imagine if told you if we used solar panels in space we gather more sunlight which means more energy all we have to do construct a satellite with solar panels on it and place battery's inside the satellite the battery's will be charging off the solar panel for 30 years place the satellite a little further out in the ozone layer to collect the energy and i have a feeling the battery's will be super charged by time 30 years have passed depending on how close the satellite is to the sun . Edited June 21, 2013 by christian walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwagen Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 The idea itself isn't new, as there are some concepts of solar power in space already. One of the problems is getting the power down to Earth, since it's not possible (yet) to run wires to the satellites. However, I'm not sure batteries are the best idea. For one, how large do you think the batteries would have to be for them to have to take 30 years to fully charge, and would it be practical to bring such devices to orbit? How long would such a 30 year charge last, and how much of the world would be supplied by one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 We would have to fly to the satellites from a spaceship to collect the batteries and see exactly how strong battery charge is and they could probably power cars for the future or even better flying cars and homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 We would have to fly to the satellites from a spaceship to collect the batteries and see exactly how strong battery charge is and they could probably power cars for the future or even better flying cars and homes. The cost of launching batteries to charge them and bring them back for use would be prohibitive. You would use more energy than you gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) No it would actually depend on how strong the electric charge is on the battery the closer a solar panel is to the sun the more energy it lets off. Edited June 21, 2013 by christian walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwagen Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I think this is due to a misconception on how batteries work. The amount of energy a battery can contain isn't dependent on how long it's charged. Otherwise, do you think a normal rechargeable AA battery would last longer if you charged it for a few hours more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 No this is a fact we all know how a solar panels works and we all know batteries are rechargeable here on planet earth why cant they be charged in space also . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwagen Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 They can be charged in space, and solar power works better up there. That doesn't mean you can charge a battery endlessly. All batteries have a limited maximum charge, and won't charge beyond that. If you try and force-charge them, they explode. This means you need to either replace the batteries all too often for it to be economically viable, or use such large batteries that you won't be able to get them into orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 No this is a fact we all know how a solar panels works and we all know batteries are rechargeable here on planet earth why cant they be charged in space also . Once the battery is full, it is full. So there's a limit to how much energy you can put into it. No battery can store the energy needed to get it into orbit (if it could, we would use them instead of rockets). So you would use more energy moving the batteries than you would get from the solar power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 No battery can store the energy needed to get it into orbit (if it could, we would use them instead of rockets). As a matter of interest how would we do that, say such a battery existed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Well, a battery combines an oxidant and a reductant, so do rockets. Since, in the case of a battery you might have a solid phase reaction you would need to use the electrical power to heat a working fluid to a high temperature and push that out of the back of the rocket, and that may well spoil the overall efficiency.. The point I was making was that rocket design is largely about getting a whole lot of stored energy in as small a mass as possible. So is battery design- but batteries also need to be stable and to have the energy harvested electrically. Rockets just need lots of hot gas so the constraints are different and generally less severe - if the energy density is high enough the reaction temperature will generally vapourise the products. There is one system which is effectively used for both rockets and batteries- the hydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 maybe it could be possible to create a super battery that can hold very high amounts of energy and the battery could be brought back through space ship missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 maybe it could be possible to create a super battery that can hold very high amounts of energy and the battery could be brought back through space ship missions. You should do a cost/benefit analysis. How "super" does it have to be to justify launching and then recovering it? Launch costs are currently a few $1000 per kg. Without recovering the payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) It would have to be able to power one city for 10 years but theres no telling how close to the sun a solar panel would have to be collect that much energy. one thing i do know is you would have to calculate energy by the degrees of each solar flare let out into space the reason you need to know exactly how Hot each solar flare is because that's how solar panels work they gather energy from sunlight heres an example lets say 100 degrees can power all the houses with energy imagine what 200 degrees can do that's why its important too know . Edited July 1, 2013 by christian walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 It is much less expensive to build solar farms around the world than to put them in space. Maybe, if you can figure out how to use the kinetic energy of reentry to launch another space vehicle, your idea would be practical, regenerative braking for space ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwagen Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) It would have to be able to power one city for 10 years but theres no telling how close to the sun a solar panel would have to be collect that much energy.How big a city? Copenhagen? New York? Beijing? one thing i do know is you would have to calculate energy by the degrees of each solar flare let out into space the reason you need to know exactly how Hot each solar flare is because thats how solar panels work they gather energy from sunlight heres an example lets say its 100 degrees gives off 20 watts of energy towards a solar panel now inmagine what 200 degrees give off double that 40 thats why its important to know and this is just a example. You do need to be wary of some solar flares, as they can disrupt equipment on board a satellite. However, solar panels do not work by heating up. http://www.neutralexistence.com/blog/outdoor-temperature-and-the-efficiency-of-home-solar-panels/ Edit: Fixed quoting Edited July 1, 2013 by pwagen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 How big a city? Copenhagen? New York? Beijing? You do need to be wary of some solar flares, as they can disrupt equipment on board a satellite. However, solar panels do not work by heating up. http://www.neutralexistence.com/blog/outdoor-temperature-and-the-efficiency-of-home-solar-panels/ if solar panels dont get energy from the sun then why do they sit on top of houses then for show? I think personally we should be finding ways to power stronger batteries we may need it for the future gas wont be here forever sooner or later everything is gonna have to be electrical 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think personally we should be finding ways to power stronger batteries we may need it for the future gas wont be here forever sooner or later everything is gonna have to be electrical 100% Other people have been working to make better batteries, but their efforts clearly do not satisfy you. Instead of blaming others for being incompetent to find "ways to power stronger batteries" why don't you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian walker Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Lol sadly that was my objective when i made this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 sooner or later everything is gonna have to be electrical 100% This is showing some real insight, although not completely true since we are already using biofuel. If we remember that many of the natural processes on Earth are powered by the Sun's radiant energy we can harness this on Earth indirectly by, for instance wind and wave power. Gravity is another natural harvestable source eg in tidal power. There is no energy crisis in the engineering sense, just the lack of political will to organise ourselves to harvest natural sources. go well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krash661 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Other people have been working to make better batteries, but their efforts clearly do not satisfy you. Instead of blaming others for being incompetent to find "ways to power stronger batteries" why don't you do it? i'm actually surprised the conversation went into 20 post, i stopped reading at the third sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 There is no energy crisis in the engineering sense, just the lack of political will to organise ourselves to harvest natural sources. The economic part is that politicians are largely controlled by money from big businesses. Fortunately, businesses are starting to diversify into the green economy. Unfortunately, the process is slow, and some businesses aren't doing enough IMO. Lol sadly that was my objective when i made this post IMO: Your quest is unrealistic. Chatting here will not help. Go do the research if you think it is possible. I quit this conversation as not worthwhile. I wish you good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 It would have to be able to power one city for 10 years but theres no telling how close to the sun a solar panel would have to be collect that much energy. But that's just it — this is a scientific question, and there is a way of telling these things. But you have to start quantifying the parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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