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To those against war on Iraq

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I did not know that aquisition of land during war was illegal.

 

Historically Palestinian land

 

The palestinians on that land now aren't the same ones. They come from surrounding muslim countries. What about the early israelite tribes on the land?

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The land held by palestinians for generations, passed down from father to son, is being bulldozed to make way for new security fencing and more israeli settlements. One of the few economically successfully ventures in the entire region, orchards, are being torn down because Israel claims they are a vantage point for Palestinian snipers. This destroys the local economy - if the two sides enaged in trade with each other and made money from each other, then surely this would lead to greater integration and understanding.

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Originally posted by blike

This is Israel's land, there is no Palestine.

 

I am honestly shocked that you think this.

 

honestly.

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Originally posted by fafalone

[...]And we don't lie about our weapons like Saddam does... everyone knows we have enough nukes to wipe out all life on Earth 100 times over.

Ah, ok, that makes me feel safer...:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Matzi

Ah, ok, that makes me feel safer...:rolleyes:

Well, you know, you can never have enough nukes. ;)

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Originally posted by fafalone

It's a fact that Saddam is a brutal dictator who kills his own people and uses them as human shields, and that he has WOMD. If you disagree, that's your own blindness.

 

There isn't any disagreement on that, read the previous posts and save everyone some time.

 

And we don't lie about our weapons like Saddam does... everyone knows we have enough nukes to wipe out all life on Earth 100 times over.

 

Prove it. America will not let weapon inspectors in, so how in the sweet name of Jesus are we supposed to know that you are not stockpiling WOMD??? Americans could have one each for all we know, they could be on sale down at Walmart.

 

Where do you get your facts from? A personal link to the CIA?

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Originally posted by Sayonara³

Well, you know, you can never have enough nukes. ;)

Yeah, I gotta buy someones myself... :D;)

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Blike, I believe you are my new best internet friend:)

 

I'm Israeli,. and know much of the ignorant superstitions that many people have about Israel-U.S. relations and our methods of war.

 

Let me start off by saying blike is right, Israel did not attack the twin towers, we (U.S. and Israel are bassicly the greatest of allies)

 

History lesson:

 

A jewish state was voted for by the UN in 1947, the palestinians opposed to this and a civil war took place. We, neerly weaponless, poor, and fewer in numbers won the war due to our extreme resourcefullness and sorry to say...higher intelligence.

 

By having this civil war we actually won more ground then the UN originally voted for us to recieve and by rumors the palestinians made to make more fight for their land of jews killing women and children, and beating the old the systimatically scared themselves into leaving Israel. Then in 1948, an Israeli state was created.

 

Israel had 5 wars since 1948 not including the one now taking place. The sini war of 1958, the 6 day was of 1967, the Yom Kipoor war in 1973, and the lebanon war of 1981. The the old intefada occured in 1988, and the new one recently in 2000.

 

The U.S. supported Israel ever since the 6 day war, and we have ever since been the strongest allies in the world.

 

New intefada:

 

The new intefada is not necessarily a war but a last desperation of the palestinian people. With every new bombing we search every house in the west bank for homemade bombs, and we search every vehicle to come in and out of palestine/Israel. Some say our methods are cruel, butwe do not harm defenceless civilians, and try constantly to enforce peace...IT IS the only way.

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Welcome, if I would have the energy I could go all day long, if you got any questions ask away...I'm here.

 

As Fafalone would have said: Ignoance pissess me off, as it does here.

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am honestly shocked that you think this.

 

Well, not quite as it sounded. I was more toward implying that the people who are there and claim to have a long history of the land are pretty much lying (even Yasser Araft who claimed to have been born there, when in reality he was born in Cairo).

 

If you want to be technical, the earliest records indicate the Israelis had this land first.

 

"Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound…." In 1882 there were only 141 thousand muslims (arab and non-arab) in the entire land of israel (and 25% of those came after 1831). In the next 56 years, the land experienced an 7-800% increase in arab population. All accounts from the time report that the majority of this increase was from neighboring countries.

 

Tell me, in what year was the palestinian state established?

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Prove it. America will not let weapon inspectors in, so how in the sweet name of Jesus are we supposed to know that you are not stockpiling WOMD??? Americans could have one each for all we know, they could be on sale down at Walmart.

 

Sorry, but our nation isn't run by a dictator, we don't kill our own people, we don't send terrorists to other nations, we don't send suicide bombers to kill in the name of religon, we don't rage holy wars, our nation isn't in anyway a theocracy, we don't try and brainwash our citizens by limiting what can be shown on television, we don't kill dissents, our nation isn't in turmoil; economically, politically, and socially, and put rather simply, we know better.

 

So even if we do have WOMD, do you really think we are going to use them?!?!?!?!

 

Now if you think someone that does the aformentioned had WOMD, doesn't live in a country that is economically stable and socially stable, and furthermore wants to make a name for himself because he believes its his destiny based on his decendents repuations; isn't going to use them, and isn't a major threat to the wellbeing of humanity?!?!??!?!

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Originally posted by CHRISCUNNINGHAM

[...] we don't send terrorists to other nations, we don't send suicide bombers to kill in the name of religon, [...]

Hussein did not either. This is still just speculation. This still has not been proven.

we don't rage holy wars

Sure? I mean, what is this? Sometimes I really think Bush is leading to a holy war for Christianity.

we don't try and brainwash our citizens by limiting what can be shown on television

Sure? I mean, how can you prove that? This morning I actually saw (on CNN, so I don't take this for granted) battles going on around Umm Quasr. Your government reported this city was already under full control on Friday. This seems to be a great misinformation for me. It's just an example, but don't belive your media too much. Media are always not that trustworthy, in Iraq, in the US and everywhere else.

 

But you make war on Iraq without UN approval. You don't accept an international court because it might as well sue American war criminals.

 

By the way, the arguments you have all been bringing forward aim only at killing or removing Saddam Hussein and his regime. That is an aim which would be great to reach and I would not have anything against such a removal, I would even like to see something like this. But by this means... Actually, your general or whatever he is ranked as who organizes your whole strike on Iraq said this morning that the course of the war would not be changed when Hussein's death was announced and confirmed. The war would go on. For which aim? Can you tell me this. Besides, why does your country bomb houses of civilians?

I think a removal of Hussein and regime is absolutely justified but NOT by this means.

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Originally posted by greg1917

Lets just tie up something. Iraq is in possession of anthrax. This is not my opinion but verified fact due to Britain admitting that it sold Saddam Hussein anthrax several years ago. We do not need to go charging into the most volatile region on the planet to confirm this, all we need to do is look at the receipts britain has. Saddam has scud missles - bought from the former soviet union. we know this because he used them in the last gulf war I believe. We know he has several strains of types of nerve gas because he's used them on the Kurds at various times in the past 2 decades.

 

Now what we do not know. there is no proven direct link between iraq and al quaeda, the presentation Colin Powel gave to the UN was highly criticised on this part, at least by the british media and European politicians. Besides, Osama Bin Laden detests Saddam because iraq is a secular state, is quasi-socialist, non-islamic and thereby an infidel by bin laden's logic. Bin Laden even labelled Saddam a communist, id hardly say they were in cahoots. We do not know exactly how much material Saddam has but if he's agreed to have Al Samood (spelling?) missles destroyed then this must be good news. Iraqi scientists are being interviewed in private, inspectors dont seem to be being denied entry to his presidential palaces and Hans Blix keeps on announcing that Iraq is cooperating more and more. A good job the UN have appointed someone called Hans to search for arms...

 

Try watching a nightly program we all call "The News." The UN (Usless Neorotics) You know full well that at this point their "Uslessness" is apparent to even them. It is a fact accepted by all but the most delussional leftist.

 

If you have a POINT to make..wonderfull. If you want to spout rhetoric, there is a philisophy section.

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Originally posted by DocBill

Try watching a nightly program we all call "The News."[...]

I think many of those stating the facts justying a war are mostly not proven (me included) watch news. My news have failed to account for any link with Al Kaeda and this also concers other "facts" of this discussion. You can state again and again that people disagrreing with you might be stupid, ignorant, naiv or whatever. However, this is not what a discussion ought to consist of and does not make us step foward. I mean, if there is evidence, we might have missed it. So just give it to us. Give us objective, reliable and confirmed evidence.

[...] The UN (Usless Neorotics) [...]

:mad: You really think you are alone on earth?

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Originally posted by CHRISCUNNINGHAM

Sorry, but our nation isn't run by a dictator,

No, but you are dictating how other nations must behave, on threat of war.

we don't kill our own people,

Yes, you do, both in a legal sense in the US penal system and literally:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2877349.stm

we don't send terrorists to other nations, ,

By that I assume you mean you don't call US troops terrorists, and not that you don't send troops into foreign countries like Somalia and Iraq under the guise of the world police.

we don't send suicide bombers to kill in the name of religon

Well, no. The US simply drops bombs from B52's onto civilians, or napalms them if they are a 3rd world country.

we don't rage holy wars,

I'm afraid you do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2820085.stm

If the Pope say's it is religious, you can assume he is right.

our nation isn't in anyway a theocracy

You are in fact "one nation under God", and there was a theocracy in New England when the settlers first arrived. but aside from that I'm not quite sure what that comment means? You don't think Hussain is a Priest do you? :P

we don't try and brainwash our citizens by limiting what can be shown on television

The jury is out on that one. I seem to think that the is a certain amount of indoctrination that is a little higher than most western countries in the US. Good idea for a thread though.

we don't kill dissents

*cough* Let's not discuss McCarthyism and the anti-communist hysteria that seems to resurface with each new enemy in the US.

our nation isn't in turmoil

No, it's run by a manmonkey though :D. Well, mind you the LA riots were not too stable a situation, now were they?

economically, politically, and socially, and put rather simply, we know better

Better than who? Who would turn to the US for advice on economics, politics or (god help us) social graces? The US is run in more or less the same way as the WWE is run by Vince McMahon, fun to watch but not too subtle.

So even if we do have WOMD, do you really think we are going to use them?!?!?!?!

God, YES as a matter of fact I think that the US will use WOMD again. It's just wating for the right combination of events, and I'm sure there will be a thread with the same arguments on it when it happens.

Now if you think someone that does the aformentioned had WOMD, doesn't live in a country that is economically stable and socially stable, and furthermore wants to make a name for himself because he believes its his destiny based on his decendents repuations; isn't going to use them, and isn't a major threat to the wellbeing of humanity?!?!??!?!

 

Not the point of this thread, this was not a soapbox for the US citizens to preach from. This was about the US ignoring the UN to go to war, instead of waiting for UN support.

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Hussein did not either. This is still just speculation. This still has not been proven.

 

No. He's admitted to funding the family of suicide bombers to bomb CIVILIANS in Israel.

 

No, but you are dictating how other nations must behave, on threat of war.

 

Not really, if one sees a dictator who openly shows his disgust, abhorration, and malignity, uncircumstancially you don't let him do what ever the heck he wants.

 

Yes, you do, both in a legal sense in the US penal system and literally:-

 

Very weak argument.

 

By that I assume you mean you don't call US troops terrorists, and not that you don't send troops into foreign countries like Somalia and Iraq under the guise of the world police.

 

You show me all of the civilians we killed uneccesesarily, yet purposely in the name of Christianity, becuas the Bible says to stirke down the infidels, and I'll tell you your right.

 

Sure? I mean, what is this? Sometimes I really think Bush is leading to a holy war for Christianity.

 

NO.

 

Sure? I mean, how can you prove that? This morning I actually saw (on CNN, so I don't take this for granted) battles going on around Umm Quasr. Your government reported this city was already under full control on Friday. This seems to be a great misinformation for me. It's just an example, but don't belive your media too much. Media are always not that trustworthy, in Iraq, in the US and everywhere else.

 

Uhhhhh I have over 550 channels, and I have seen specials about what is wrong with the war on Iraq.

 

I recall Iraq, having 4 channels or so.....but hey, there's no room for brainwashing there......

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

we don't send suicide bombers to kill in the name of religon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Well, no. The US simply drops bombs from B52's onto civilians, or napalms them if they are a 3rd world country.

 

And what civilians were these?

 

You are in fact "one nation under God", and there was a theocracy in New England when the settlers first arrived. but aside from that I'm not quite sure what that comment means? You don't think Hussain is a Priest do you?

 

"we are one nation under God"

 

That means NOTHING. We do not follow the rules of the Bible as Federal Law. Hence we are not a Theocracy.

 

We do not fund terrorists killing in the name of religion, HENCE we are not a theocracy.

 

*cough* Let's not discuss McCarthyism and the anti-communist hysteria that seems to resurface with each new enemy in the US.

 

Yeah, no wonder all of those people who have been speaking out against The Bush Administration over the past few weeks have been executed......because we kill dissents.

 

God, YES as a matter of fact I think that the US will use WOMD again. It's just wating for the right combination of events, and I'm sure there will be a thread with the same arguments on it when it happens.

 

Well then if this happens, may he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

By the way, the arguments you have all been bringing forward aim only at killing or removing Saddam Hussein and his regime. That is an aim which would be great to reach and I would not have anything against such a removal, I would even like to see something like this. But by this means... Actually, your general or whatever he is ranked as who organizes your whole strike on Iraq said this morning that the course of the war would not be changed when Hussein's death was announced and confirmed. The war would go on. For which aim? Can you tell me this. Besides, why does your country bomb houses of civilians?

I think a removal of Hussein and regime is absolutely justified but NOT by this means.

 

Not the point of this thread, this was not a soapbox for the US citizens to preach from. This was about the US ignoring the UN to go to war, instead of waiting for UN support.

 

First of all don't ascribe my disagreement with US citizens in general, because only 70% agree with the war, and most of them are closer to being in between, than strongly agreeing with it.

 

Second of All, we didn't bomb civilian houses, we bombed Saddam's main Command Palaces.

 

Third of all, "for which aim?"; to disable Saddam AND his regime.

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Originally posted by CHRISCUNNINGHAM

(Discussing the use of WOMD)

Well then if this happens, may he who is without sin cast the first stone.

And you talk about avoiding civilian casualties. But hey, you're America. If you think it's necessary then it must be the RIGHT thing to do.

 

Weakest and most hypocritical argument I have seen in all of the Iraq discussions here. For Shame.

 

 

ps - when you quote people, could you leave the byline in please? Your above post is very confusing because you aren't just quoting one person, yet none of the quotes are attributed to their owners.

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Originally posted by CHRISCUNNINGHAM

We do not fund terrorists killing in the name of religion, HENCE we are not a theocracy.

 

No, that's the weakest argument I've seen. I've literally no idea what point he's trying to make, but it doesn't seem to need a dictionary.

 

Chris, you crazy guy, cite some evidence. Read the previous posts, actually think before you type. There really isn't anyone here who want's a random quote war, you Muppet.

 

You really are not contribution to much other that painting a picture of ignorance in America.

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Originally posted by CHRISCUNNINGHAM

[...] NO. [...]

what an argument... :eek:

Uhhhhh I have over 550 channels, and I have seen specials about what is wrong with the war on Iraq.

This does not mean you are informed.

recall Iraq, having 4 channels or so.....but hey, there's no room for brainwashing there......

You do not rank a country by its number of TV channels. Or are you trying to justify a war with this? Countries with less than 5 channels suffer propaganda --> killing the people and invadind the country is justified. Nonsense.

And what civilians were these?

Innocent Vietnamese children and women. This does not justiy an attack on them either.

Second of All, we didn't bomb civilian houses, we bombed Saddam's main Command Palaces.

I've seen different things as well. Or didn't they mention the bombs in a civilian house 150m away from a hospital? Or of the hotel bombed on your 550 channels?

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Originally posted by YoungStrife

Welcome, if I would have the energy I could go all day long, if you got any questions ask away...I'm here.

 

what about the settlements?

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The settlements were started around the 60's as a plan to prevent the possibility of a palestinian state. They increased in size and numbers up to around '95 (i think). Now lately when we recognise the palestinians as an identity, and ever since the PLO got international attention, the settlements stopped groing, and now we [pay the [rice by spending billions on protecting them.

 

A little over half a year ago Sharon (or Barack..i forgot) extracted 26 illegal settlements as a short-term peace sollution...hope that helps.

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Looking back on the beginning of this thread... I cannot help but laugh.

 

Have you learned a leson blike? :P

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time for ban dawid ;]

 

jk <3

 

I'm sure I ate my words quite a few times somewhere in there, and I'm sure I will continue to do so in the future ;/

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