fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Now when we turn on a computer, it provides this hardware architecture with electricity so we can play games and listen to music on it. The brain is a bit similar to a computer and that the thalamus could be the one generating this main hardware architecture with electrical signal in the way of a waveform. The problem is I do not see how the consciousness arise from this waveform because it is just a wave and I sure think the computer is not conscious being something capable of generating an identical waveform through its hardware architecture(or any circuits with an output Q in that matter). So how does the consciousness arise from within the thalamus? Please let me know, any hints or theories are welcomed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, fredreload said: I do not see how the consciousness arise from this waveform ! Moderator Note What is the evidence that it does? You simply have to stop posing questions based on unsubstantiated premises. IOW, you can’t ask how aliens built the moon until you establish that aliens actually built the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 52 minutes ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note What is the evidence that it does? You simply have to stop posing questions based on unsubstantiated premises. IOW, you can’t ask how aliens built the moon until you establish that aliens actually built the moon. You cannot say a wave is alive. A wave is just a change in voltage. For instance a square wave. The consciousness "could" arise from a waveform, but we simply do not know enough about voltage and consciousness to test if it even exist. If you are saying a waveform is alive then a computer is alive, and any electrical appliances carrying a voltage is alive, which I sort of rule out because the possibility seems low or I would not know. The only way to test this is not from something that does not exist but from actual evidence that we can learn from, for instance, human, or any organism exhibiting a consciousness for that matter. It seems you are implying that the consciousness arises out of voltage resonance(this might not be a term but I used it for clarification), or electrical resonance, but a resonance is just a change in amplitude, I can have a resonance on 5 volts or I can have a resonance on 5000 volts, the implication to which the consciousness arise from this phenomenon is not well defined. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, fredreload said: You cannot say... If you are saying... It seems you are implying... All swansont did was ask you to support something you seem to be taking as a given. I don't know where you read all the rest of the stuff you think he's saying/implying. Why do you think only the thalamus is responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 19 minutes ago, fredreload said: If you are saying a waveform is alive ! Moderator Note I’m not saying anything about the topic, so this is moot. The problem is that you are asserting things as fact, and asking questions based on it, and that’s unacceptable. It is an example of an argument not made in good faith. You had a thread where you asserted unequivocally that the seat of the consciousness is in the striatum. Now we have this. You’re making it up as you go. That’s not going to fly. It’s not science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note I’m not saying anything about the topic, so this is moot. The problem is that you are asserting things as fact, and asking questions based on it, and that’s unacceptable. It is an example of an argument not made in good faith. You had a thread where you asserted unequivocally that the seat of the consciousness is in the striatum. Now we have this. You’re making it up as you go. That’s not going to fly. It’s not science. Then what do you want me to do @@? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) Before you discuss why or how something happens, you need to establish that it happens. You need to start with " does consciousness arise from within the thalamus?" Because the obvious answer is "no". Do you have a reason to think otherwise? Edited May 15, 2021 by John Cuthber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 23 minutes ago, fredreload said: Then what do you want me to do @@? ! Moderator Note Provide evidence (from mainstream science) that consciousness arise from within the thalamus. As I had asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Phi for All said: All swansont did was ask you to support something you seem to be taking as a given. I don't know where you read all the rest of the stuff you think he's saying/implying. Why do you think only the thalamus is responsible? Ya, it's the whole consciousness circuit(RLC) that causes the voltage to resonate, good one. 12 minutes ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note Provide evidence (from mainstream science) that consciousness arise from within the thalamus. As I had asked. Got it, I will work on it more tomorrow. Edited May 15, 2021 by fredreload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 But even with a high voltage gain on RC resonance does not equal consciousness right? Or are you saying there is infinite voltage in the brain at the resonance point? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 ! Moderator Note As OP has not established that the discussion is based on accepted biological knowledge, the thread has been moved to speculations. As such it follows the usual speculation rules and requires some support to allow a proper discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 28 minutes ago, CharonY said: ! Moderator Note As OP has not established that the discussion is based on accepted biological knowledge, the thread has been moved to speculations. As such it follows the usual speculation rules and requires some support to allow a proper discussion. Ya, that is cool. So what defines one person's consciousness from another? The voltage voltz level? -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 21 minutes ago, fredreload said: Ya, that is cool. So what defines one person's consciousness from another? The voltage voltz level? Do you mean what distinguishes one person's consciousness from another person's? The fact that the two people are physically distinct. It's a bit like asking what makes one orange different from another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredreload Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, exchemist said: Do you mean what distinguishes one person's consciousness from another person's? The fact that the two people are physically distinct. It's a bit like asking what makes one orange different from another one. I see, they can have the same voltage level but being different entities. Like they both have 5 volts but are two different entities. Like if I am a voltage entity I would say I have 5 volts, the other person is also a voltage entity with 5 volts, but we are two distinct entities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 ! Moderator Note Since you are engaging without establishing that the premise is true, this is locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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