quirky88 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 We are looking to open a golfing driving range whereby you hit the golf balls at targets and if they go in one of the holes, you are awarded a different number of points. This is already being done by a company with Radio Frequency chipped balls and is patented. I wonder if there are any other types of sensor that might work like laser/infrared?? Really appreciate everyones help! (also I was unsure if this is Physics or Engineering so I double posted, sorry!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Depends where the balls go after they have gone in the holes. If there is an automatic ball collection system from the holes the measurement of which hole does not have to be at entry and there are umpteen possible ways of sorting and triggering points application. Please ask a mod to cancel your double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I assume you want something more than "a ball went in the hole" (which is easy – a light source and a detector in the hole. When it gets interrupted, a ball went in) since you want to correlate it with a particular participant. You could possibly do this with optical. If there were something like a QR or bar code printed on the ball, it could be scanned when it's in the hole. You might need more than one sensor, or a way to move the ball or sensor, to allow it to line everything up. An advantage of an RF chip is that it doesn't need to be lined up, and can work while the ball is moving, to some extent. edit (xpost with studiot) and as studiot points out, sorting with the ball return system is possible. There are a lot of industrial solutions already in place for that sort of situation. If the balls were color-coded, for example, you could pretty easily detect them. But on a driving range I assume you just go and get them at the end of the day, or week. Many more just lying around being picked up by the tractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area54 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hi quirky88, it's not clear to me why you can't purchase the balls and the system from the existing company. You say it is already being done, which implies that they have the balls in production. It is probable that purchasing a tried and tested solution would be less expensive - and quicker - than trying to develop a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 28 minutes ago, swansont said: But on a driving range I assume you just go and get them at the end of the day, or week. Many more just lying around being picked up by the tractor. The OP specified that only the balls that enter holes need be classified. None of those that miss need be processed in this way. 24 minutes ago, Area54 said: Hi quirky88, it's not clear to me why you can't purchase the balls and the system from the existing company. You say it is already being done, which implies that they have the balls in production. It is probable that purchasing a tried and tested solution would be less expensive - and quicker - than trying to develop a new one. Golfers (presumably I am not one) wish to practise with the brand of golf ball they will use in real games/matches. Using modified balls ties them to one type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quirky88 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 I was thinking colour coded however the only issue if there are 50 bays and potentially 200 people playing at the same time, that's a lot of different coloured balls and scanners to detect. Barcode could work however like you say It would be hard to get it to match up and scan at the right point. I heard of a place that uses cameras on each bay to follow each specific ball and assign then points depending where they go however this has also been copyrighted. the issue with buying the balls @Area54 is that it would be in competition with their business regardless of the fact it's nowhere near. They won't to be the only ones who can provide this game in the world using that technology so I am trying to look for tweaks. Thanks again guys @studiot it is more of a fun activity for family's as opposed to professionals. Similar to how trampoline parks are for recreation not skilled trampolinists. you're correct that the balls that don't hit the holes don't need scored however! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 If you are concerned about the patent, then you need to read what it says very carefully. For example, they might use RF chips but the patent probably should only list that as one example method and will says that other suitable techniques could be used. So it may be (should be, if it is well written) hard to get round the patent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, studiot said: The OP specified that only the balls that enter holes need be classified. None of those that miss need be processed in this way. My point was that there is probably no ball return system. How many holes-in-one do you get on a golf course? 26 minutes ago, quirky88 said: the issue with buying the balls @Area54 is that it would be in competition with their business regardless of the fact it's nowhere near. They won't to be the only ones who can provide this game in the world using that technology so I am trying to look for tweaks. Did the driving range patent the system? That seems unlikely. What seems more likely is that some tech company patented it, and would welcome more business. But even if it was the driving range, licensing the technology makes them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quirky88 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) @Strange below is what it states. I have a meeting with a lawyer next week to see if there's loopholes however I was hoping there would be another texhnology solution if not... "Golf balls for use with a system for finding golf balls and methods for making such golf balls. In the case of one exemplary golf ball, the ball includes a shell, a core material and a tag having a diode which is coupled to an antenna which has at least a portion formed from an elastic conductive material, such as an elastic conductive ink. The core material may include a void for receiving at least part of the diode. Other golf balls are described and methods for making balls are also described." the patent office have assured me that the game/concept cannot be patented any more than basketball can, it's the technology that comes with it... @swansont the holes are pretty large so a lot go in (see picture) it depends how close to centre of the hole it goes to how many point Edited August 25, 2017 by quirky88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 This article says that the RFID technology is provided by Rush Tracking Systems, for one chain of driving ranges. That's who holds (or licenses) the patent(s). Not the driving range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I'd have thought the best option is if each hole had a funnel to put the balls in one place. You could then light gate (or weigh) the funnel or endpoint and use a colour sensor to id the player from the colour of the balls. Player number would be limited to the number of colours you can source and distinguish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, quirky88 said: the patent office have assured me that the game/concept cannot be patented any more than basketball can, it's the technology that comes with it... I assure you that a driving range is not the holder of the patents on this technology. RFID has been in use for years. This is just another application of it. And when you said hole, I thought it was a traditional golf hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, swansont said: This article says that the RFID technology is provided by Rush Tracking Systems, for one chain of driving ranges. That's who holds (or licenses) the patent(s). Not the driving range. Now merged with Sky-Trax: http://www.rfidjournal.com/articles/view?9083 And have now become TotalTrax: http://www.totaltraxinc.com (who don't seem to produce golf balls) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Here's a competitor to the TopGolf chain's technology https://golf-delta.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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