MigL

Exactly, as bolded. The idiot thought he could control them; and was wrong again. Oh, and please show me where I have justified collateral damage, or the bloodshed of innocents, in this thread. My first post in this thread was an angry response to another member's post where the targeting of Hezbollah members via their pagers, to avoid collateral damage, was labelled a 'cowardly and cruel' terrorist act. I, myself, considered it a brilliant method of mitigating collateral damage, and wish the IDF would do the same in Gaza.

That applies to any movie, even Academy Award winners. The first two are illegal; the second two can be found in any movie, even Academy Award winners. Some might argue that you have to like it in order to accept it; I don't think so. You can find it distasteful, but accept that others may enjoy it.

The fact that Netanyahu is stupid doesn't change the fact that Hamas is evil. I have stated several times in this thread that I think Netanyahu is an idiot. Instead of courting Hamas he should have worked more closely with the Palestinian Authority, which seems much more reasonable and interested in a sustainable peace. And you must realize that a lot of the 'propping up' Hamas received was foreign aid, which they then syphoned off to buy weapons, while Israel simply allowed it to happen. So again I ask, who are the actual bad guys, and who are simply stupid ?

I will definitely keep your advice in mind the next time I put up a billboard in Afghanistan 🙂 .

How exactly. The mission was always to get rid of all who wish to harm Israelis; no matter what country they're in. Personally, I would give Iran an ultimatum; stop funding your proxy terrorist groups or you will suffer consequences. Israel has a fleet of LM F-35s, allowing them to strike Iran with impunity, as they have done before. Yeah. And the US aided the Taliban in their struggle against the Soviets in the 80s. Does that make them responsible for what the Taliban has morphed into ? A lot of Russians wold describe Putin's Government the same way, yrt he keeps sending their kids to die in the Ukraine. A lot of North Koreans would say the same of their government. What exactly is your point? Maybe INow thinks I'm like a dog who won't let go of a bone, but when the discussion becomes one sided, I cannot let it go without presenting the other side.

You have, but it wasn't needed. Other posters on this thread have different positions, and it is them that I'm questioning. ( don't try to make everything about you, INow 😄 )

And you don't think Hamas knew it would be ? I do believe they were counting on it. The deaths of their people is just a stepping stone to further their objective. And instead of condemning them, some of us fall for the ruse, and condemn the consequences.

en did the discussions on legalization start ? One aspect missing from this whole thread are the rights of the child, who is being used sexually before he/she is old enough to form a mature opinion about a complex subject that can have consequences to their mental health and development for the rest of their lives. And the fact those images are 'out there' for others to 'enjoy' their abuse and humiliation further adds to those consequences.

I'd say go ahead and post it. When I see things like 'spiritualistic auras, UFOs, human resonation, quantum travel and ( what is ) quantum hair information', I get the impression it's time for fruit and nut cake. You don't seem to understand some terms you use and I can't see how your idea would have any use to anyone else. Sorry about the brutal honesty.

Consumption is purely voluntary. It's not like you find pornography on billboards. Although i realize young kids are exposed to pornography at much younger ages now, due to internet access, and parents neglecting their obligations to their kids; this has led to unreasonable expectations among young adults as to how women should be treated, what to expect from sex , and respect for their partner's limits.

Welcome. As others point out this is a very open ended question. You can have as much protection as you want. From full protection if you decide not to post, to varying protection if you do, and full protection again if the idea turns out to be worthless and no one else wants it.

Then why all the vitriol directed solely at Israel ? Other than Joigus and I, not a single criticism has been directed at Hamas or Hezbollah ( or Iran, the puppet master ) in this thread. If I can be accused of being a 'Netanyahu apologist' for pointing out that Israel is attempting to specifically target Hezbollah with the pager attack, and trying to remove an illegitimate ( no elections ) government ( Hamas ) whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel, not to care for their people ( used as human shields, keep killing hostages and won't release them to get a cease-fire, etc ), surely then I can question who you guys are apologists for.

Even assuming we had definite proof that he did such a thing and allowed the massacre to happen, by reducing border patrols in the area and, in effect, left the door open, why would Hamas fire 5000 rockets into another location of Israel in order to divert IDF forces away from the area being targeted for the massacre of about 1200 people, the kidnapping of about 200, and the injuring of about 5000 music festival attendants? "On the morning of October 7, 2023, Hamas led a simultaneous wave of assaults on Israeli civilian communities and military posts. The dawn attack began when Hamas launched over 5,000 rockets from Gaza into Israel, then used these strategic barrages as cover to breach the border. In this massive surprise onslaught on southern Israel" From Mapping the Massacres (oct7map.com) Almost seems like they ( Hamas ) wanted the soldiers out of the way so they could specifically target civilians. But also begs the question ... If I leave my front door open and someone breaks in and kills my family members, am I the bad guy, or is it the ones who committed the murdering. That seems a real stretch, to absolve Hamas of wrongdoing, and shift blame to Netanyahu, and also might make the argument for even more secure, impassable borders, never mind a so called 'concentration camp' fence.

I am not a Netanyahu apologist; I seriously dislike the man and wish the Israelis would get him out of office, but those types, like our own Trump, seem to have a considerable cult following, and a capacity for manipulating the electoral system to their advantage. But I will not stoop to innuendos and conspiracy theories, such as starting a war, and having thousands of even your own people killed, to avoid prosecution. If there is actual proof of this, present it, otherwise Trump may decide to use the same tactic if re-elected. And I do recall, several posts back, someone accusing the Israelis of killing Hamas' chief negotiator, who also happens to be a leader of Hamas ( a verified terrorist organization ) and being 'shocked' that they would do such a thing. I guess if Putin went to the Ukraine to negotiate a territory for peace deal, the Ukrainians should treat him with respect ?

I apologize for my confusion. Yet I don't see how your point negates Joigus' question. Are you simply stating that Palestinians ( Gazans and West Bankers ) are not all bad; some are , but others are mostly innocent bystanders who get dragged into the violence ? I would suggest that's just like Israeli citizens ( some of which are Palestinian ); a lot of them are innocent bystanders who get blown up in nightclubs, or raped/killed/kidnapped at music festivals, while others are raving idiots like Netanyahu. And of course, both were elected to form the Government of their respective people; but while one Government doesn't give a sh*t about its people, the other is 'over-enthusiastically' attempting to make sure no more violence and kidnappings happen to theirs. I leave it to you to decide which is which. And I still don't understand how one side, trying to avoid killing innocent bystanders by specifically targettingHamas members using pagers, is a 'cowardly terrorist act'. I should think it would be commended for not indiscriminately killing innocents, but I suppose people will jump at any excuse to label Israelis a terrorist group.

No one said they were. Israeli Arab citizens were being discussed within a specific context, which you chose to ignore, or simply haven't read preceding posts. Please ( do so ).

And a simple Google search would have revealed 1.8 million Palestinians live comfortably in Israel; Either never having left, or returned there after the many wars since the late 40s. The situation looks very similar to me. So why such a penchant for firing rockets, and trying to kill, inhabitants of their former lands ? Maybe they are being used as cannon fodder for other parties out to destroy Israel, and some in the West make it easy by constantly trying to deny Israel's right to protect itself.

I was ridiculing your views and agreeing with them simultaneously. Why do you think an idiot like Netanyahu gets elected and re-elected ? Why do you think the Israelis want strong immoral leaders ? Why do you think such a little country has the largest arsenal, including nuclear, in that part of the world ? Could it be because the day after the country was born, they were attacked by their Arab neighbors ? Could it be because they have been attacked more times in the last 80 years, by neighbor states and proxy groups funded by those states than any other country in the l;ast 500 years ? Could it be because the people Israel was created for, have been distrusted, hated and exterminated throughout history ? Do you think maybe the Israelis are tired of living in constant fear ? And maybe expecting the dog that's been beat too much, to be the grown up in the room, is a step too big to take. I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to make. Look around. How many German, Polish, Ukrainian and Italian immigrants do you see? They all left everything behind to escape WW2 and it political and economic aftermath. They made good lives here and need no 'reconciliation'; but they did lose what they originally had, as they came here with nothing. Same with relatively wealthy Koreans and Vietnamese, when their feared their countries falling into Communism. And I know how many former Yugoslavians are in Italy trying to make a better life for themselves, and how many Syrians fled their war into Europe. There are many peoples displaced by war, who lost everything, yet they're not firing rockets at their former states, nor encouraging kids to strap on bomb vests. ( maybe they chose to be the adults in the room ? ) Do you understand it now or are you simply choosing not to, in order to cling to the deeply held ideology that Palestinians are justified in doing violence to Israelis/Jews ?

Nicely put, Zap. This will only stop when both sides decide there been enough bloodshed, and revenge isn't appetizing anymore.

Yeah ... 'living memory' is apparently the new goalpost. I wonder if you guys would give the same support to all the Germans who had to leave with the coming of Hitler to power and WW2? Or the Polish people who lost everything and were displaced by Germans in WW2. Or the Polish, Ukrainian and other Eastern Europeans that were displaced by the subseqient Soviet occupation. Or all the Koreans that were displaced by the Korean war and now own the convenience store on your streetcorner. Or all the Vietnamese people I know who abandoned everything and fled when Saigon fell. Or the former Yugoslavians who were ethnically cleansed and displaced in the separation wars of the early 90s. Or the Syrians who were forced out of their country by a brutal dictator with the help of the Russians. Maybe all these people should start firing rockets indiscriminately at their oppressor states, or strapping on bomb vests to detonate in night clubs, and rape, kill and kidnap people at music festivals where people weren't even born in 1988, never mind 1948. As I said; how far back do you go to justify violence ? As far as is convenient.; you just make up another word like 'living memory' to justify vilifying Israelis/Jews and keep posting pictures of little kids whose parents care more about revenge, and how soon they can be fitted with a bomb vest, a bomb vest, than their life and future. This has got to be the most novel solution to a conflict I've heard. @TheVat suggests " Stop the endless cycles of reprisal and repression" So, allow the violence from one side, and stop the reprisals from the other. It seems you guys have picked one side while Joigus and I have picked the other.

Absolutely right. 2000 years ago my people owned all of Europe, from a wall in Scotland to the middle East. Then Germanic Vandals, Franks, Lombards, Normans and eventually even Muslims dispossessed my ancestral lands. I should have the right to fire rockets indiscriminately at Germany, France, Eastern Europe, Scandinavian countries and the Middle East. Maybe brainwash some young suicide bombers, and rape, kill and kidnap people at their music festivals. Just how far back do you go to justify violence ? I do, but committing violence is never a right. Self defense, however, is. Because if I ever punched anyone in the face, I fully expect them to break my arm to prevent me doing so again. Something Hamas, Hezbollah and even Iran ( as they furiously try to develop their own nukes ) should keep in mind.

Notice I asked 6 questions, none of which were answered. But I will answer yours. No, I don't support Zionism; I support the right of people to live without the fear of being attacked, and, if they are, the right to retaliate such that those attacks are no longer possible. Not a 'proportional response' ( whatever that means ), but the actual removal of the capability to attack in the first place. That is my opinion and what I practice in life, and why I have never physically attacked anybody in my life, as that is their right also. So I answered your question and told you where my opinion comes from; you answered none of my questions, and told me to shove my opinion. Well done; you must be proud of yourself. Really ? That is certainly true in Israel. Put a Jew, or Israeli, in Gaza. Put a Jew, or Israeli, in Iran. See how long they last.

Rationalize it any way you want. Israel doesn't have a documented policy of 'exterminating' their neighbors, although they could, as the only nuclear capable 'superpower' in the area. What about Hamas ? What about Hezbollah ? What about the former PLO ? What about Egypt at one time ? What about Iran ? What about Syria ? Just how many do you want me to list before you open your eyes and realize that you guys are the enablers that the actual terrorists ( which I attemped to list, but there are too many ) play, to gain sympathy for their cause and 'punish' Israel, and Jews, worldwide. I hear plenty of condemnations from you guys. Either they are overreacting, being too over-reaching in their retaliatory attacks and killing too many civilians, or they are cowardly terrorists who strike with surgical attacks to kill actual terrorists using outdated 20 year old technology. I have yet to hear a single suggestion on how to acheive peace so that both sides don't have to worry about attacks. Maybe you think Jews should just disappear off the face of the Earth and that would solve the problem. Another guy with a weird mustache thought the same way about 85 years ago.

So, you can't specifically target the "bad guys' as that is cowardly, and you can't have collateral damage as that is cruel. Doesn't give many alternative choices other than 'shut up and take it'. not a good time to be an Israeli. See what I mean ? '

Jow do you know which is which ?