Phi for All

! Moderator Note That was my first reaction as well, until I realized MigL misunderstands what is meant by "systemic" in this context. I hope going forward he understands we're talking about the process more than the people. It seems to be the key to understanding the "bad apples" argument.

I think it's because God needed a scapegoatsnake. He realized he'd lied to A&E when he said they'd die if they ate the apple, so he puts the serpent into the garden to tell them it's OK to eat the apple. God gets to curse the snake with a forked tongue and make it crawl on its lying belly, and boots the ungrateful tenants who now want clothes as well as a garden. And nobody remembers who lied first.

! Moderator Note You should have reported other members using fallacious logic to argue their points, the way they reported you. There's no need to waste your time on a discussion when someone isn't being honest. If you point out someone's fallacy and they keep using it, or they continuously fall back on strawmen to misinterpret your words, I urge you to use the feature. It gets staff attention.

! Moderator Note Not sure what you're trying to do here, but you won today's Report That Post pool. Please stop playing Fallacy Bingo, or whatever is making you argue in such a disingenuous manner.

! Moderator Note Let's be aware that while guns are an aspect of this topic, it would be all too easy to let that aspect take over the discussion. Let's avoid a split, and stay focused, thanks.

... and then murder him.

! Moderator Note It's important to hear various perspectives, even the ugly and odious. Having a dissenting opinion isn't against our rules, but your tactics are unacceptable. As in the above, your incredulity sets a vague standard for what "significant" means, while you ask the membership for exact numbers before you'll concede the point. And even when evidence is provided, you ignore it and jump to your next vaguely presented argument. And nobody knows if you learned anything. You aren't engaging in good faith arguments, Moreno. The membership has no problem showing you the errors on which you base your dissension, but your lack of acknowledgement when someone takes the time to correct a bit of ignorance is soapboxing, and against the rules. We need to know there may be some meaningfulness to be had from these conversations, and you show no signs of learning anything, and you certainly don't present anything anyone here wants to be taught. This isn't your thread, so we won't close it because of your arguments, but you'll be suspended for rules violations. If you want to participate, step up the rigor, and stop using fallacious logic to make your point.

! Moderator Note Please make your posts relevant. No more distractions, no more red herrings, no more fallacious logic.

IOW, "I don't know what I'm talking about, but if YOU do, I would appreciate it if you'd stop making my argument look bad."

These are personal issues, and I have no problem with Moreno attempting them on their own, wherever they may find themselves. Where I think they need help is with those areas where their personal behavior overlaps with the expectations of a society. It's pretty clear they have no interest in being inclusive wrt the way groups of people interact with them, and still hold on to a very primitive, tribal mentality when it comes to those who look different.

His MO is to kick you, then scream to his base about how unreasonably angry you are about it, and how you should really get some help for that. We need reform NOW! Every day, as an older white male in the western US, I go through my life with certain expectations. I know if I walk confidently into any situation, and do the things I'm supposed to do (smile, make small talk, stay within the lines, speak up but not TOO loudly, act nice, don't be or say anything awkward, fill out the form, drive on the right, nod with respect, keep it clean, please and thank you), my society will reward me with successful outcomes to my endeavors. The whole system gives me big kiss on the lips every time I do things right. I put in a quarter, and the machine give me candy. But the system doesn't work that way if you aren't a white man. Imagine doing all the right things, but you get glares instead of smiles, distrust instead of doors thrown wide, and sneers instead of any sense of community. Imagine having to always do more than some others to get the same or worse results. Imagine pushing the buttons in the proper sequence just like the white guy in front of you, but you don't get the same access he did. You put in your quarter, the machine keeps it, and you get squat. I think we need to skip the seeds somehow this time. We need a single big tree with lots of room for branches maybe, and a much broader, healthier system for the roots.

In the US at least, those wrong reasons became the blueprint for a flawed process that skews the way the system is applied. And I think the wrong foot was placed with the assumption that the native Americans, the poor immigrants, and the freed slaves held a LOT of resentment over unfair treatment at white hands. Leadership at the time reacted like oppressors, rather than like people interested in forming community.

In the US, police forces were established before the Civil War (Boston was the first, in 1838) mainly to handle perceived native and immigrant problems. After slavery was abolished, the model was expanded to include perceived threats from free black men.

The whole "bad apple" argument is also a distraction. In the US, it's used by the far right the way they use "lone gunman" to describe a white terrorist. People who espouse this concept are helping bad programs and policies continue. The focus should be on methodology and practice, not on individual police officers. This is a systemic problem.

Speaking with one unified voice often sounds just like angry slogan chanting. It's not their fault that you're smarter and want deeper reasoning than their average spectator. Speaking as if to a child is about as inclusive as you can expect anybody to be in a protest where safety is a concern. I don't see the problem here, MigL.

XVV has been suspended for 3 days for abusive language. If you aren't happy here, inflict yourself elsewhere. If you stay, be civil.

NineTwentyEight has been banned for abusive behavior and soapboxing. Nobody is interested in your blog, this is a science discussion forum.

! Moderator Note A bunch of misleading and subjective posts have been split off to the Trash here.

! Moderator Note Slurs or prejudice against any group of people (or person) are prohibited. You can do better than such generalizations.

John Henke has been banned for a foul meltdown via PM after his thread was closed.

Pass by, relative to the rest of the galaxy? Sure, we'd practically have to duck. But if you were to tell a friend you were going to "pass by" his house later, and then only got within four million miles, well....

Bmpbmp1975 has been banned for spamming, after an obscene number of warnings. We only needed one thread misunderstanding vacuum decay, thanks very much.

Well, that's completely different. Your mistake was posting in the Speculations section. It's assumed you're challenging mainstream explanations when you post there, but this sounds like you have some gaps in your knowledge to fill, and are more interested in asking questions than asserting something new. I'll move this to Earth Sciences. Can we assume you've read the Wikipedia article on Pangaea? Plate tectonics would be relevant as well.

This is a science discussion forum. NOBODY is interested in your altered state musings. We want something besides your incredulity to persuade us your idea has merit. "Makes sense to me" is just about the opposite of doing science. Do you have any evidence, or critical reasoning that supports your ideas? Otherwise it's just a wild guess, and that's really not interesting. Have you studied plate tectonics? It's fascinating stuff.

We have rooms, and they're at least 6 feet apart. Sorry if a couple of guys virtually hugging gives you a strange, self-induced feeling.