J.C.MacSwell

I don't think it is unfair for anyone to question my motive. I think it is unfair to ignore any clarification I make and not accept it. When Ten oz starts off a statement with "You are trying to imply..." and continues "and therefore..." should I report it? Or should I clarify my position and ask if he can accept it? What would you do?

argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument,

OK. You persist with ad hominem arguments. That's fine. I will do the same.

So you already understood all that? I didn't need to tell you? OK. Thank you. Moving on.

Always good to see a gladiator enter the Coliseum...

Let's break this down so I can be precise and clarify, since much of this included insinuations I don't agree with I am in fact essentially stating that is generally the case...only a climate change denialist level thinker would try to dispute it. Pointing to exceptions, especially strong women or cold days don't change these objective truths. I wasn't saying that. That was not the point I was making at all. That, however, does not mean it's not true. In some career fields it is true. However, I also find it disingenuous to imply that was a point I was trying to make, if that was what you were trying to do. Nor would I dispute this. I agree with this, but take exception to the "ignore" part. It is disingenuous to suggest I'm ignoring it for the motive you suggested, again if that is what you are trying to do. So now that I have made that clear, is that acceptable?

I can agree with that.

Can that not include their sex?

It comes down to this: Accepting objective truths does not make you sexist. Nor does denying them...it just makes your judgement weaker...and it makes you wrong.

Roughly 25% of our work is at Shipyards/Dockyards. Another 10% on construction sites. Personally it would be a little higher. We are now saying the same thing with regard to lifts (you weren't earlier). With respect to comfort levels and the topic, would you expect the average woman to lift the same as the average man? Would it be safe to assume they were, on average, equal? Or do you totally exclude that consideration in your judgement? Stated another way, are you willing to ignore objective evidence in your pursuit of what you see as equality.

Have you worked on a construction site? A shipyard? Lumberyard? These places are constantly requiring assessment of individual or paired lifts. Sometimes, but less often, team lifts. How much can you carry? If I take this and that, can you take the rest? Or should we make two trips? If I get this end and you get that one, is that OK? Should we get the forklift? There are guidelines and techniques for personal lifts. We always stress they are guidelines and to err on the safe side. You best do this by understanding that not everyone is equal. Sex being one of many factors.

You might be surprised how much it is appreciated. I get every bit as good a reaction to it in the US, as I do in Canada. Even if it is not reciprocated and/or someone believes it absolves them of any blame I usually don't care.

I don't do that.

I don't do that. I'm from Canada, 99% of the time we both say the same thing. It's simply being courteous. I believe it is less common in the States.

I do this all the time. It is a statement in a manner that conveys respect for someone's feelings, without implying I feel I am responsible. Say you inadvertently bumped into me in the supermarket. My first reaction would be to say sorry in a polite manner, even if it was 100% sure it was your mistake. If I thought you were being reckless I might say it in another way, more likely "excuse me", with the tone depending on circumstance up to including obvious sarcasm.

If for instance it was a male complaining that women should lift as much as men? Or a woman complaining that she felt no one should lift more than anyone else, despite there being obvious discrepancies in lifting capability ? I don't know where you work, but where I do these could be legitimate examples. Fortunately this hasn't come up, and everyone generally uses their common sense. Everyone is expected to err on the side of safety, I did specify for that example for Ten oz to assume my context inferred the objective science that men are on average stronger physically. I would be tactful, but if I was of the opinion that someone I was in charge of was making an unsafe lift I would intervene...even if I felt it was safe for someone else to do it. As I said, I would adjust my language where practical.

I would tell them I was sorry they felt offended by my belief that was founded in objective evidence. I might try to change my speech where I deemed it appropriate, but not if it affected the job significantly.

It could though, if my context was physical strength.

What if I said "strong woman"? What if it was clearly meant physically? Women have less physical strength, on average, than men. What if I was referring to the Women's light weight World Champion? Do I need to refer to her as a person of above average strength? What if it was meant in terms of character? Some might say that suggests women have less strength of character than men. i certainly would not. Do I need to point that out, or explain why? Do I have to say "strong person"? Can I not simply be reasonably (my opinion of reasonably at the time) cautious, and clarify in good faith if asked, or accept what I consider to be reasonable responsibility after considering what I said?

I said scale of the budgets, Swansont. Two thirds of 32 Trillion in medicare over 10 years cannot be funded by any amount of change in military spending. Their total budget is not even a third of that. Is that not obvious? You can't get blood out of a turnip.

Really? As much as I have occasionally objected to some of your posts, this does not seem like the kind of post you would make.

Come on INow. That's a direct response to what Ten oz stated, and for the purpose of the topic. You don't have to agree with the line of thought to see that.

No. But it is why some people have compared her to Trump. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-congress/index.html She's still more of an activist than a politician. She's a rookie. A high draft pick based on potential that needs to change her game to make "the Team"...even for the Democrats. She's going to make mistakes. But let's not write her off.

It isn't perfect. It simply sets the bar higher than half. If someone thinks they would like to change it back the onus is on them to get 55%, so a change of at least 10%. You could allow another clause that if it gets over 50%, but cannot get to 55%, on the next referendum, say minimum 2 years later, on the same subject only 50% (plus 1) is required. Other things should require a supermajority much higher to make a change. Imagine a hypothetical where someone wanted the 13th amendment overturned. You would want the threshold to be pretty high...100% plus 1 comes to mind.

I didn't...but I will. I think 55% would be reasonable for something like this. Also thank you for not assuming.