Jump to content

Eise

Senior Members
  • Posts

    1938
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    20

Everything posted by Eise

  1. Where I do not quite agree with your formulation (chemistry?), I do agree with your overall position here. We should do what is best for society. Just to extend: not just Scandinavian countries, but two other countries I know quite well, the Netherlands and Switzerland. Finding the best possible way to integrate criminal offenders, in every individual case, should be our motivation, not the urge for revenge. That may include punishment, but we should always be open for better ways top cope with them. Envy the US sentencing policy??? The Western country with the highest prisoner percentage compared with the number of inhabitants. Is there less criminality in the US than in Europe? And you know that the 'high school for criminals' is jail, don't you? Exactly.
  2. Very clever! You wouldn't have some positive concept? Something like instead of 'unlucky' as the opposite of 'lucky', describing it as 'sad'? E.g. 'voluntary'? I wholeheartedly agree here. But I think the compatibilist concept of free will exactly gives the basis for deciding for punishment or rehabilitation, or both. Sure. But it is not just subjective. We can at least try, as a society, to find agreements.
  3. You can decide to do your utterly best to pass an exam. That can be an example of free will. But if you succeed, is another thing. Gilbert Ryle gave another simple example of this kind of category error: Say an athlete runs 100m in 8 seconds, and with such a fabulous time he wins the run. But he did not do two things: running so fast and also win. They are different kinds of descriptions of the same event. To extend this idea: the same holds for free will. Applying concepts like free will, and its companions, intentions, believes and actions at the neurological level is also an category mistake.
  4. I could give iNow's and StringJunky's answer in my own words. What would be the difference? And which bald claim? That your question implies a huge category error?
  5. That is true. That is the reason that I take 'usefulness' as criterion for a good definition of free will. How would you call then the opposite of a coerced action?
  6. I did. By agreeing with the quotes I gave of iNow and StringJunky.
  7. I did not react, because it contains such a blatant category mistake, that the answer should be obvious. Both StringJunky and iNow gave in essence the correct reactions: I have nothing to add to this, accept maybe a clarification of how category mistakes can lead our thinking into erroneous thinking. From Wikipedia: That was in 1949. One does not find the idea of a category mistake in the works of Plato and Aristotle. Maybe there is at least some progress in philosophy?
  8. Well, in criminal cases, the difference is important. If somebody is convicted or not, is among many other aspects, dependent on the evaluation if somebody acted from his own free will. Questions like 'was he coerced?' or 'was he able to see that his action was against the law?' How would you make the difference? Me too. E.g. the dichotomy between determinism and free will. Compatibilism removes the dichotomy. Exactly. Then why not discuss the different definitions of free will? See where the definitions make a difference, and which one makes most sense. You are defining free will, and as by defining what a unicorn is, let it immediately follow by 'and it does not exist'. I've done no such thing. Indirectly, yes. You define 'free will' as libertarian free will, and then, as said just above, you deny its existence (I deny it too). But your followup is that you stick to this definition as the only correct one, instead of looking at the other possible, more useful, definitions.
  9. Nope. I have no idea of why he referred to Aristotle. Given that he talks about vacuum, I suppose he refers to Aristotle's ideas about it: namely, that a real vacuum does not exist. According to A, objects move with a velocity, proportional to the 'impetus' divided by the density of the medium it moves through. As the density of the vacuum is zero, the velocity would go to infinity. That was absurd according to A, so the vacuum does not exist. But I think physics has made a little progress since A's days...
  10. Why this denigration of philosophy, even after I repeatedly corrected you? You cited Plato (the ancient Greek philosopher...), you cited Einstein, giving the impression that he thought philosophy is useless, which is not the case, etc. I discovered no change in your position, or arguments against mine. Therefore my 'snipiness'. Well, that is really confusing, calling SEP 'Plato'. So I am sorry if I misunderstood you, but only if I really misunderstood you.
  11. He said a lot about a lot of things so not until you tell us more specifically, no. It is of vital importance to know what Aristotle said, if you want to understand modern physics... No?
  12. I think they are. No. You believe they are. For the record, not from me. But somebody else already compensated you . +1 is too much, for somebody who doesn't want to engage in a philosophical discussion about a philosophical topic in the philosophy forum. I think making the same step again and again is the better metaphor. In my opinion, the problem is that people stick to some out-of-date ideological meaning of 'free will', that is not rooted in our daily use of the concept of free will. Of course, I fully accept your experience of free will. But obviously, instead of trying to reflect on this experience, people take, unreflected, some metaphysical, or theological meaning of the idea of free will. In your case, it leads to a (partial) denial of determinism (you say the future is essentially open, don't you?). In @iNow's case it leads to a complete denial of free will. The idea you have in common is that determinism and free will are contradictory, so one of them has to go.
  13. A concept of "freedom" that does not apply: in your conception of "freedom" nothing is free, and so it is a useless category. So when somebody praises your wood works (I do), you react "Nothing to praise, I blindly followed the commands of my body. And if my body commands me to kill you, I would do it, I could not do otherwise, I have no say in what I do. Do not blame me, it was my body". Don't you see that such a concept of free will is useless? That it has nothing to do with the daily use of the idea of free will? I did not realise that earth's climate has intentions and knowledge, and acts according them. I do not understand why you would like to stick to an old-fashioned and useless metaphysical conception, deny its existence (this is at least the part I can agree with), and then think you have denied every (including more useful!) other possible conceptions of what we mean when we say that we did something of our own free will.
  14. Is the Aristotle method of the four elements any use in sending space probes to Mars? @studiot: why are you still asking such stupid questions? Did you pick up anything I wrote about philosophy in this (and other) threads?
  15. False dichotomy. When you know that there are many philosophers who are compatibilists, then you should know that determinism and freedom of the will are not a priori contradictory. But one should not take a useless definition, that in the questions in which free will or not play an important role, does not help at all: things like blaming, praising, guilt, punishment etc. Sticking to an old-fashioned definition, based on metaphysical assumptions, coming forth from a Christian background, and is not coherent, just makes no sense.
  16. Ohm's law for a capacitor??? Are you really designing microprocessors? Not my topic, but capacitors build up voltage until it is the same as the voltage in the circuit. Then it behaves just like a insulator, so the current stops (unless you overload it...) As the capacities you mention, the 4.7 μF is slightly bigger, so it would take a tiny bit longer before the current ceases.
  17. I found your reaction in this thread: I agree, but I am wondering why you do not apply the same way of thinking in how you see free will. If I would use the same argumentation scheme as you do with free will, you should have said "Neurons cannot do analysis. the brain is made of neurons. Conclusion we cannot do analysis". 'Free will' only makes sense when they form mental phenomena like intentions, believes, decisions, and actions. As we are able to do analysis, we have these mental phenomena, arising from the complex connections between neurons. Defining 'free will' in terms of these mental phenomena makes sense. Defining in terms of neurons doesn't.
  18. Is a wave function a physical object, that can collapse? I like your description, except this 'split photon'. Photons can't be split. And just imagine how the two half photons find together after the split, carefully avoiding the 'dark zones' on the detection screen...
  19. No philosophy here. Neither science. Just a list of crackpot ideas, completely detached from reality and the discussion in this thread.
  20. Can be: I am not a native English speaker. But in philosophical discussions, 'coercion' is the most used word. Do not use rhetorical questions in philosophical discussions, except when it is perfectly clear that it was meant as such. Some are definitely better than others. Reread my definition: Often we cannot. And as my intentions can be inconsistent (see my reaction to Giordief), and I may not be sure about what I really believe in, so no, it often will not be the case that I can act in such a way that all of my intention and believes are fulfilled. But once I made decision, then it can becomes quite clear: can I act according my decision, or does somebody intentionally block my action?
  21. No. It has no will. It's behaviour is not formed by personal taste, intention, values, etc etc. Why do you start from the beginning? I use a clear definition of free will: We are said to have free will if we can act according our intentions and believes. You may shoot holes in this definition, but I find it useless to start the whole discussion from the beginning. Coercion. The question if somebody acted out of free will or was coerced is a meaningful question. The same question about a falling stone is useless. A stone has no will, because it has no intentions and believes.
  22. Well, if you think only libertarian free will is the correct concept of free will, and we do not have it, sure. But the concept of libertarian free will is incoherent from the outset. Well, if everything is determined, then of course '(actions) are woven in the web of causality'. I never denied that, and even stated it: determinism is a necessary condition for free will to exist. As I said just above what you cited: Sure we can. What our motivations (values, intentions) are, are part of my identity. That question is not quite clear to me. Can you give (counter-) examples?
  23. That would definitely lead to a Gödel-like situation. If I know this listing in advance, I can adapt my behaviour so that I will not do some of the actions on the list. The only way to avoid that, seems to be to account for me knowing the list. But that would change the list, and therefore my actions, and therefore the list... An easier way would be to keep the list secret, and read it the day after. Then I could be astonished about how well Laplace's Demon did his work. But it would have no impact on my actions. And neither on my evaluation of how well my actions were in accordance with my knowledge and intentions. No. It applies to everyone who is able to predict my actions, as long as I am not manipulated by somebody else. Where I do agree that a logical deduction was involved, to do so, and act according to my logical conclusion makes my action free, it is not the logic itself that makes me free. How many people have come to the conclusion that they should stop smoking, on perfectly logical grounds, but do not succeed? That is a good question. And it would take some precise definitions to answer the question. But my short answer is: yes, we are one person, but we have conflicting motivations, and maybe also doubt about facts. That means a person is not a rigorous unity. Oh yes! But nobody promised you a rose garden, is it? And that is exactly why I made my remark. When you pose something, shortly after I posted an opposing view, it would be interesting to know what your arguments against my position are. Exchange of arguments is one of the corner stones of philosophy, and this is the philosophy forum. And also SFN is a discussion platform. It would be a pity when threads are just independent opinions without arguments. Having an opinion is easy, especially in philosophy. To have a well argued opinion is definitively more work.
  24. No, you cannot just say that your taste, as something you acquired because of your biology and upraising, is determined, but your will to be on a diet is not. This would still be libertarian free will. In my view everything is determined, so for me it makes no sense. In compatibilist free will, all we do is determined: but possibly in different ways. There lies the crux: the question of free will is not if we are determined (we are), but along which causal pathways our will was determined. However, you touch an interesting point: is it possible to be more or less free? I think the question is how you formed your will, what you decided, and how well you can keep to your decision. Do you identify with you being on a diet, or does somebody threaten you (e.g. you spouse wanting you to lose weight, threatening to divorce from you if don't do it)?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.