StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) What would be the practical consequences if everywhere on Earth had the same time with no adjustment for longitude? Edited to rename parameter from latitude to longitude. Edited March 14, 2015 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 For example set everything to GMT? 'Midnight' would be 'midday' for someone. However time is just a number and we could just adjust or thinking. Similarly, I would suggest removing summer time and just fix it to GMT all year. Just start work/school at 8am and not 9am for certain times of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) What would be the practical consequences if everywhere on Earth had the same time with no adjustment for lattitude? Which country would get the prefered time? And not to spoil the party, time is based on zones of Longitude rather that latitude! Edited March 14, 2015 by Robittybob1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Which country would get the prefered time? GMT surely? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) For example set everything to GMT? 'Midnight' would be 'midday' for someone. However time is just a number and we could just adjust or thinking. Similarly, I would suggest removing summer time and just fix it to GMT all year. Just start work/school at 8am and not 9am for certain times of the year. Yes, BST really messes with my SAD. I was trying to think of negatives for it. Which country would get the prefered time? And not to spoil the party, time is based on zones of Longitude rather that latitude! I thiink the fairest way would be to do a lottery of each longitude segment in a proverbial pot and picked entirely at random. Cheers. Modified my OP. GMT surely? That would be a recipe for failure. We'd need to start again for it to have any chance of global acceptance I think. Edited March 14, 2015 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes, BST really messes with my SAD. I was trying to think of negatives for it. I thiink the fairest way would be to do a lottery of each longitude segment in a proverbial pot and picked entirely at random. That would be a recipe for failure. We'd need to start again for it to have any chance of global acceptance I think. You think the general population would be happy with that? Is it going to be imposed on us by the UN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 That would be a recipe for failure. We'd need to start again for it to have any chance of global acceptance I think. There is the closely related universal time, which is slightly ore accurate and what astronomers use. One could use the Julian date, that is 'calibrated' using GMT, but it could be an idea; just not an easy one to actually use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 You think the general population would be happy with that? Is it going to be imposed on us by the UN? I don't know and this is a totally hypothetical question attempting to explore the possible benefits and ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I think there would be 'global' benefits such as no confusion with changing time zones when, say for instance organising international video conferences. The problem is with 'local' confusion like the 'middle of the night' is 'first thing in the morning'! This could be overcome, but the intuitive local meaning of 'midday' and 'midnight' are lost, except if you are near wherever we calibrate this from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timo Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 For example set everything to GMT? 'Midnight' would be 'midday' for someone. However time is just a number and we could just adjust or thinking. It is indeed more likely that you keep the physical meaning of mid-day being in the middle of the day and drop the artificial meaning that mid-day had to be when the clock reads 12:00 (not sure how mid-day is understood at the poles today, btw). As a side-note: The modern term of GMT is universal coordinated time UTC. We use that in computer programs, for example. Reason is that internally you then have a clear definition, and you only have to care about time zones when displaying dates to an end-user. Internally using time zones is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I think there would be 'global' benefits such as no confusion with changing time zones when, say for instance organising international video conferences. The problem is with 'local' confusion like the 'middle of the night' is 'first thing in the morning'! This could be overcome, but the intuitive local meaning of 'midday' and 'midnight' are lost, except if you are near wherever we calibrate this from. I don’t think the local intuitive feeling of morning, for instance, would be lost. The circadian rhythm would remain and would overcome the numbers previous meaning. It’s for this reason I think this is an untenable idea; not to mention the question, why change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I think there would be 'global' benefits such as no confusion with changing time zones when, say for instance organising international video conferences. The problem is with 'local' confusion like the 'middle of the night' is 'first thing in the morning'! This could be overcome, but the intuitive local meaning of 'midday' and 'midnight' are lost, except if you are near wherever we calibrate this from. Each longitude would have a unique mid-day and midnight time. It would, say, be 0400 and 1000 hours in one longitude and something else in another. Those terms are 'local' expressions aren't they? The adaptation necessary is breaking away from the idea of 1200 and 2400 hours being midday and midnight in all longitudes. ...It’s for this reason I think this is an untenable idea; not to mention the question, why change? I'm not saying we should, I'm just asking (again) what the pros and cons are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 The adaptation necessary is breaking away from the idea of 1200 and 2400 hours being midday and midnight in all longitudes. Indeed, although that would probably course some problems at first we would soon adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Indeed, although that would probably course some problems at first we would soon adapt. Yes I think so too and with the ever increasing real-time interconnectedness of the world it could make more and more sense as it continues in this direction. Edited March 14, 2015 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 What would be the practical consequences if everywhere on Earth had the same time with no adjustment for longitude? Edited to rename parameter from latitude to longitude. We do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time It's just that we don't all set our clocks to it. On a slightly more concrete basis essentially anywhere on earth you can check the time WRT this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 We do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time It's just that we don't all set our clocks to it. Yes, I didn't think of UT but it is that. My question relates to if we did all sychronise all clocks to one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I went to a talk recently about whether or not to abolish the leap second, and part of it was about the politics of the problem. It's not a majority rule; changes in international standards like this have to be a unanimous agreement these days (at least, of those involved), so you have some countries torn between voting based on technical merit and the desire to vote with or against some other country. For adopting a universal time, this problem would be magnified, even past the problems of voting for the pirate king, where each pirate only votes for him/herself. Only now a plurality doesn't win, so you won't have a Jack Sparrow moment. Even if there were technical favorites, there would be countries who could never bring themselves to vote for that country. Going back a little while, the French were upset that the prime meridian didn't go through Paris, and maybe still are. There are probably those who are still miffed that the BIPM is in France. (AFAIK the two situations were sort of a trade-off in the treaty of the meter) I don't know if it's a practical consequence or not, but you might get quite a few countries who just refuse to adopt it. The shortest practical path is to just adopt UTC (last century called; they want GMT back) since we already have the time scale in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 An illustration of the sort of thing Sansont means is the name UTC. If it was the abbreviation of the English or German version (Universal coordinated time) it would be UCT If, on the other hand it was the French version (Temps universel coordonné~), it would be TUC. But the English speakers refused to accept the French version, and the French speakers refused to accept the English version. So, we have UTC which is equally wrong in both languages. It didn't win because anyone liked it: it won because nobody vetoed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I went to a talk recently about whether or not to abolish the leap second, and part of it was about the politics of the problem. It's not a majority rule; changes in international standards like this have to be a unanimous agreement these days (at least, of those involved), so you have some countries torn between voting based on technical merit and the desire to vote with or against some other country. For adopting a universal time, this problem would be magnified, even past the problems of voting for the pirate king, where each pirate only votes for him/herself. Only now a plurality doesn't win, so you won't have a Jack Sparrow moment. Even if there were technical favorites, there would be countries who could never bring themselves to vote for that country. Going back a little while, the French were upset that the prime meridian didn't go through Paris, and maybe still are. There are probably those who are still miffed that the BIPM is in France. (AFAIK the two situations were sort of a trade-off in the treaty of the meter) I don't know if it's a practical consequence or not, but you might get quite a few countries who just refuse to adopt it. The shortest practical path is to just adopt UTC (last century called; they want GMT back) since we already have the time scale in place. I thought of this, and the start point being arbitrary anyway, rather than voting, give all longitude segments an equal chance to be chosen by dropping 24 raffle tickets in a bucket and let someone blindly pull one out. Mind you, imagine the international conferences being held prior to decide what system and protocols that must be followed before someone puts their hand the in bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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