Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 We can't deny the fact that science greatly change our lives and the whole humanity. But I will go directly to this question, what is the status of science today in terms of verifying our worldviews?.. Does it verify the worldview of a theist or the worldview of an atheist or other worldviews? I hope that we can discuss our ideas here and I am willing to give my ideas as well as best as I can... Thank you very much in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Since not all theists share the same worldview, and not all atheists share the same worldview, and there are probably as many worldviews as there are people, I suspect you will need to define a specific 'worldview' to discuss if you want this to go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 Since not all theists share the same worldview, and not all atheists share the same worldview, and there are probably as many worldviews as there are people, I suspect you will need to define a specific 'worldview' to discuss if you want this to go anywhere. To be specific: Theism- belief in God Agnosticism- don't know Atheism-there is no God These are the specific worldviews I want to discuss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 To me it seems fairly obvious that science supports the worldview that there is absolutely no evidence that any God exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) I want to show to you which worldview is better and that is my worldview... I will do my best to give evidences and arguments with regards to my worldview.But before that I want to know your part.. Edited March 22, 2017 by Randolpin -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I just gave my part. What else in particular do you want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 I want to discuss first what I learn that life is absurd without purpose.. Imagine we have no purpose at all.. Our achievements, our goodness etc. were merely illusions. There is no purpose of it.. Life in other words has no absolute purpose. But deep in our hearts we know that life is important.. In our everyday lives, we are afraid to kill someone because we value the purpose of their lives, and its wrong to kill them.. But of course, we can create our own subjective purpose on ourselves, but it is only an illusion because absolutely, there is no purpose of life. We are just the result of random collisions of particles, and we are completely doom in the future into nothingness due to the law of thermodynamics.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 You can give you own life purpose by trying to make the world a better place - leave it with more love in it than when you arrived.... or, being fair, you can choose whatever you want to get out of life and make that your purpose. As someone who used to be a Christian I would like to think that I will continue to spread love and goodwill - at the end of the day it is your choice whether or not you want to give your life purpose or just go out in a blazing storm of self indulgence... up to you. "Completely doomed.." Why? Are you talking billions of years in the future when all will be destroyed anyhow? Who's to say by then we won't find a way to 'move' somewhere else, some safe for a further billion years or so. Sooner or later we will have to take colonies into space... probably not in our life time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 But deep in our hearts we know that life is important. You mis-spelled "believe" Also, I have issues with your definition of atheism. It is (or can be) a lack of belief in God, rather than believing there is no God. The latter definition is a subset of the former. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 To be specific: Theism- belief in God Agnosticism- don't know Atheism-there is no God These are the specific worldviews I want to discuss... The proper categories are: gnostic theism: there is certainly a god agnostic theism: I think there is a god, but I don't know for sure agnostic atheism: I do not think there is a god, but I don't know for sure (this is what is usually meant by atheism) gnostic atheism: there is certainly no god First of all, since some god-hypotheses are not falsifiable, science supports the agnostic worldviews. Secondly, the absense of any evidence, combined with occam's razor, supports atheism over theism Finally, some god-hypotheses are falsifiable, and those are not supported by science at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider5678 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I want to discuss first what I learn that life is absurd without purpose.. Imagine we have no purpose at all.. Our achievements, our goodness etc. were merely illusions. There is no purpose of it.. Life in other words has no absolute purpose. But deep in our hearts we know that life is important.. In our everyday lives, we are afraid to kill someone because we value the purpose of their lives, and its wrong to kill them.. But of course, we can create our own subjective purpose on ourselves, but it is only an illusion because absolutely, there is no purpose of life. We are just the result of random collisions of particles, and we are completely doom in the future into nothingness due to the law of thermodynamics.. My purpose? I'm here now. I exist. I can feel, see, learn, experience, and live. Others, feel, see, learn, experience, and live. So I live in the here and now, and I do my best to prepare for my future. And I will die. I have accepted that. But I don't roll over and die. Others will follow me. Others will live. And so I can work to make their lives ever so little bit better. I can work to give my family(if I ever have one) a good life. My purpose is what ever I decide it to be. Because what I do affects me, and the people around me. My purpose doesn't need someone dictating it. And while I believe there's a higher power, specifically God, I can have purpose with out. And so can people who don't believe in God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) My purpose? I'm here now. I exist. I can feel, see, learn, experience, and live. Others, feel, see, learn, experience, and live. So I live in the here and now, and I do my best to prepare for my future. And I will die. I have accepted that. But I don't roll over and die. Others will follow me. Others will live. And so I can work to make their lives ever so little bit better. I can work to give my family(if I ever have one) a good life. My purpose is what ever I decide it to be. Because what I do affects me, and the people around me. My purpose doesn't need someone dictating it. And while I believe there's a higher power, specifically God, I can have purpose with out. And so can people who don't believe in God. That is a subjective purpose. It is only due to your own perspective of the purpose of life. What I mean is the absolute purpose of all.. Why we exist in this reality? The whole purpose of the existence of humanity.. Edited March 22, 2017 by Randolpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider5678 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 That is a subjective purpose. It is only due to your own perspective of the purpose of life. What I mean is the absolute purpose of all.. Why we exist in this reality? The whole purpose of the existence of humanity.. Your humanity. Do you feel torturing little kids is a wonderful thing? No. Of course not. Because you have humanity. Your humanity gives you purpose. Or God can give you purpose. What ever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Why does "humanity" in particular need a purpose? Does the rock in your garden need a purpose, or the tree in the yard, or the ant under your house? Maybe life as a whole has a purpose - probably to continue to survive. I said above what I think a human beings purpose in life should be - to better the world for humans and all good life. Although it is a choice you make.... unfortunately, some people need the threat of eternal torture or the promise of good things after life before they will even consider doing anything good for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) The proper categories are: gnostic theism: there is certainly a god agnostic theism: I think there is a god, but I don't know for sure agnostic atheism: I do not think there is a god, but I don't know for sure (this is what is usually meant by atheism) gnostic atheism: there is certainly no god First of all, since some god-hypotheses are not falsifiable, science supports the agnostic worldviews. Secondly, the absense of any evidence, combined with occam's razor, supports atheism over theism Finally, some god-hypotheses are falsifiable, and those are not supported by science at all. There are only some but, if you want I will provide what I learn some evidences that God exist.. I will do my best scientifically, and this also adds my belief in God because in the past I'm greatly tied in my scientific world view but now I strongly hold my worldview that God exist because of my experience and also the evidences found in nature.. Edited March 22, 2017 by Randolpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider5678 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Why does "humanity" in particular need a purpose? Does the rock in your garden need a purpose, or the tree in the yard, or the ant under your house? Maybe life as a whole has a purpose - probably to continue to survive. I said above what I think a human beings purpose in life should be - to better the world for humans and all good life. Although it is a choice you make.... unfortunately, some people need the threat of eternal torture or the promise of good things after life before they will even consider doing anything good for anyone else. It's not always about the threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 Your humanity. Do you feel torturing little kids is a wonderful thing? No. Of course not. Because you have humanity. Your humanity gives you purpose. Or God can give you purpose. What ever you want Deep in our hearts, right or wrong values are ingrained.. And it is natural to us humans, so it seems to me that it contradicts the idea that absolutely, life has no purpose because, we feel naturally and involuntarily that there are right or wrong values ingrained in our hearts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Deep in our hearts, right or wrong values are ingrained.. And it is natural to us humans, so it seems to me that it contradicts the idea that absolutely, life has no purpose because, we feel naturally and involuntarily that there are right or wrong values ingrained in our hearts.. You said you were going to be scientific, so please do so. Values are not ingrained in our hearts. Let's be specific and accurate in our descriptions. The heart is a muscle and it does not house values. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 You said you were going to be scientific, so please do so. Values are not ingrained in our hearts. Let's be specific and accurate in our descriptions. The heart is a muscle and it does not house values. This is only part of my philosophical thinking.. What I really mean about "values ingrained in our hearts" is our conscience.. So now, to be scientific, I will provide the evidence of nature particularly the origin of the universe... The recent account for the origin of the universe is due to the effect of quantum fluctuations, meaning that, particles came in and out of existence from nothing... I know it requires a critical thinking skills because it is a deep part of science but I will do mybest and let me continue.. Nothing produces nothing and how can nothing produces particles if nothing only produces nothing? Therefore, quantum fluctuations can't come from nothing (bec. nothing produces only nothing). There should be an entity that accounted for the origin of particles.. When we say nothingness, it means no space, no time, no matter etc. In other words nothing entity exist.. It seems to me that that entity accounted for the origin of particles must be eternally existing bec. nothing can't create something.. The cosmological discovery speaks that the universe originate from nothing.. And for us, it is impossible bec. nothing can't create something.. There should be a Powerful Entity that made the universe, originate from nothing..That entity is outside space and time or the temporal dimension.. This Entity must exist eternally to avoid infinite regression as what occam's razor said.. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 The recent account for the origin of the universe is due to the effect of quantum fluctuations, meaning that, particles came in and out of existence from nothing... Citation please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 I found this by my best: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Yea - that shows space isn't empty - not sure it says anything about the birth of the universe though. Those quantum fluctuations were shown to be so by the expt with 2 metal plates put so close together that nothing could appear inside them... then there was a force detected from the incident particles hitting the outside of the plates iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Yea - that shows space isn't empty - not sure it says anything about the birth of the universe though. Those quantum fluctuations were shown to be so by the expt with 2 metal plates put so close together that nothing could appear inside them... then there was a force detected from the incident particles hitting the outside of the plates iirc. So if space is not empty therefore, it is not nothing, it is something.. Edited March 22, 2017 by Randolpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 it IS empty.... until these things pop into existence and then annihilate again back to nothing... I do not know if it is fully understood. Swansant or Strange or many others can explain it better than I for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider5678 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 You said you were going to be scientific, so please do so. Values are not ingrained in our hearts. Let's be specific and accurate in our descriptions. The heart is a muscle and it does not house values. Brilliant. Simply brilliant. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts