Eldad Eshel Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Folded paper! OK what thought processes do you go through to make it spin, for I presume it isn't always spinning? Or trembling as in your second experiment. Is the folded paper then placed on a needle point? Like it isn't just placed on the table top as it is, is it? Yes the paper wheel is on a toothpick that is standing up right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I can still get it to spin without the bowl over it, which to me means the bowl over the wheel just makes it harder to move, ... Or, placing the bowl over the wheel removes whatever natural force was making the wheel spin before. As mentioned, your breath, air drafts, and the heat of your hands near it are the most likely culprits. If this was a mental phenomenon as you suggest, why would you need to be so close to the wheel? If you could isolate as much air flow near the wheel as possible (rig a screen you can see through with plastic wrap?), you could leave off the bowl, stand at least 3 meters away and try to move it with your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Yes the paper wheel is on a toothpick that is standing up right. So it requires very little force to make it move. Can you change the direction it rotates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 So it requires very little force to make it move. Can you change the direction it rotates? Sometimes I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Sometimes I can. So what do you think makes the difference when it changes direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 So what do you think makes the difference when it changes direction? Well It isn't easy at all, making it spin AT ALL isn't easy, but to change the direction I basically think of the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well It isn't easy at all, making it spin AT ALL isn't easy, but to change the direction I basically think of the other direction. Well that is different than what you told me earlier when you said it wasn't a thought process! Do you move your hands as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well that is different than what you told me earlier when you said it wasn't a thought process! Do you move your hands as well? Yes I agree that this would qualify more as a "thought process", where actual thinking is envolved. I mostly don't move my hands, but sometimes I do, anyway it shouldn't make for much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 So, given what you have said so far, it is pretty obvious that the motion is caused by your breath and/or moving your hands around. This is about what we would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 So, given what you have said so far, it is pretty obvious that the motion is caused by your breath and/or moving your hands around. This is about what we would expect. If it was from my breath it would be moving all the time or at least alot more. I also put it in a location with no air drafts, when I look at it from far it does not move at all. Without the bowl I AM still able to move it and I am sure of it, however my initial excitement has decreased severely with not being able to move it with the bowl over the wheel, which would probably be an academic requirement. You need to understand that moving it is very hard as it is and happens sort of randomly and not at all the times I try. We don't really know how this works, but with the bowl over it makes it harder and I don't know by how much, it is certainly though the next step of my "ability". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I have a crystal pendulum on a chain that I can make swing "at will" when I hold the end of the chain between my fingertips. Of course, it's all because of my hand movements, but you'd be surprised at just how much influence even subtle and virtually imperceptible changes can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 If it was from my breath it would be moving all the time or at least alot more. I also put it in a location with no air drafts, when I look at it from far it does not move at all. Not at all. You could be breathing harder when concentrating. Or, even more likely, this is just an example of confirmation bias. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Which is why you need to get a friend and do a "blind" test; i.e. where you don't observe whether it is moving or not. You simply write down when you think you are moving it, and someone else (who cannot see or hear you) writes down when it moves. Then you compare the results afterwards. My bet is it will be just as likely to move when you are not trying as when you are. Or, as often happens, under controlled conditions, the "effect" disappears completely. Without this, you are just fooling yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 You need to understand that moving it is very hard as it is and happens sort of randomly and not at all the times I try. I would suggest that moving it with your mind is NOT what's happening, and the reason for the random success is the chance involved in a system like you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 I am going to the clinic tomorrow and I will pick up a breathing mask, the results should be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 We don't really know how this works, I am going to the clinic tomorrow and I will pick up a breathing mask, the results should be the same. Since you're still not removing any other influence you may have, I would suggest this is a worthless test. You mention "We don't really know", which suggests you have someone helping you. Why not set up the blind test Strange suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Since you're still not removing any other influence you may have, I would suggest this is a worthless test. You mention "We don't really know", which suggests you have someone helping you. Why not set up the blind test Strange suggested? I have no one helping me, in "we" I meant myself and all the rest of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I have no one helping me, in "we" I meant myself and all the rest of humanity. Could you post a video of it stationary and then beginning to spin on YouTube or such like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldad Eshel Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Could you post a video of it stationary and then beginning to spin on YouTube or such like? I will try to arrange something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Could you post a video of it stationary and then beginning to spin on YouTube or such like? Are those the only parameters you'd like to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Are those the only parameters you'd like to see? We will get to see what he is doing with his hands and how far back his head is, the rate of spin will be apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 You won't see the oscillating fan in the background that, by an odd coincidence, turns towards the paper just when Eldad manages to make it move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 You won't see the oscillating fan in the background that, by an odd coincidence, turns towards the paper just when Eldad manages to make it move. There could be many ways to fake it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 There could be many ways to fake it. I am definitely NOT suggesting that the OP is faking it. I am sure he is completely sincere. (But then, I am very gullible ... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I am definitely NOT suggesting that the OP is faking it. I am sure he is completely sincere. (But then, I am very gullible ... ) I thought he might just be lying and then to even set up a faked situation and video it is going to make him think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 There could be many ways to fake it. That's why I asked if you wanted more parameters. He's offering to perform an experiment and show the video. We should take the opportunity to make it meaningful and helpful to Eldad, and set up some rules for him ahead of time. If we don't do it now, we'll just be complaining about it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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