High global temperatures, but more snow???

[Elite Engineer]

I live in the Great Lakes region of the US, and my area always gets hit hard with snow every year, predominantly via lake effect...If Lake Erie for example remains

 

somewhat warm in the early parts of winter, the cold air from Canada passes over, gets "heated" and rises, gaining moisture, and freezes..or whatever (I'm not into the

 

lingo).

 

Here's what I don't understand. If the world is heating up due to global warming, and the lake stays warm during winter, should we have less chance of snow. Even though

 

the warm air rises and takes on moisture, shouldn't there be less occurence of snow b/c of higher temperatures via global warming?

 

~EE

[swansont]

The higher overall average temperature does not mean it won't get cold enough to snow. More moisture in the air means more snow.

[Klaynos]

Some places will get colder on the surface.

 

In general extreme events will become more frequent and more severe.

 

That's the consensus I've seen.

[Essay]

Even though the warm air rises and takes on moisture, shouldn't there be less occurence of snow b/c of higher temperatures via global warming?

 

~EE

...that would probably be true, if global warming were completely uniform, but that is why the term 'climate change' better describes the global revving that occurs when extra heat is added to the system.

 

Increased snowfall in certain regions is a common response to greenhouse heating (since the warmer air can hold more moisture) as long as it’s still cold enough to snow within that region. Here is an additional elaboration, on these replies so far, from an article explaining why “Global Warming Won't Stop Snowstorms.”

 

It mentions how: “People may know the expression, ‘It’s too cold to snow’ — if it’s very cold, there is too little water vapor in the air to support a very heavy snowfall, and if it’s too warm, most of the precipitation will fall as rain,” O’Gorman said. “Snowfall extremes still occur in the same narrow temperature range with climate change, and so [snowfall extremes] respond differently to climate change compared to rainfall extremes or average snowfall.”

 

I was taught that for every degree of warming, there is a 4% increase in the amount of water vapor that the air holds. And I think that is in degrees F, so it would almost double that water vapor increase, for degrees C, which is how most climate models and their predictions are reported in the media.

 

And if you live in an area with Lake Effect Snows, then this change in water vapor is probably swamped by your particular conditions locally. But for the rest of us, who occasionally get snow, we may get more of a taste for what Lake Effect Snows are like, as the atmospheric reservoir becomes increasingly charged.

 

~

[npts2020]

It might also be mentioned that the less the Great Lakes freeze over, the more lake effect snow you can have. The colder the lake and the more it freezes, the less temperature differential (between water and atmosphere) and open water there will be for lake effect snow events.

[puppypower]

Global warming keeps the lakes warmer longer. This allows more lake effect snow as cold air descends in the winter and impacts the warm moist air above the lakes. The extra snow, it turn, keeps the ground colder, longer, in the spring due to the deeper ground cover. The deeper spring snow cover, in tern, lowers the average local temperature compared to less snow; cooling effect.

 

If the earth got cooler, so the lakes cool faster and there is less lake effect snow, them the snow cover will be less in the spring, so the ground can heat up faster. Water regulates the earth by having built in paradoxes that prevents swings either way.

 

Say the earth heated to where the polar caps melted and the excess liquid water floods the earth. Since land can heat up faster and hotter than can liquid water, the decrease in land surface area will cause the earth to cool. For example, where i live the ocean rarely gets above 70 F even when the land gets 100 F. If I was under water, my same position will never exceed 70. This is another water failsafe to regulate the earth.

[overtone]

The extra snow, it turn, keeps the ground colder, longer, in the spring due to the deeper ground cover. The deeper spring snow cover, in tern, lowers the average local temperature compared to less snow; cooling effect.

Where I come from, extra snow insulates the ground and keeps it warmer all winter.

Edited September 23, 2015 by overtone

[puppypower]

A snow cover will insulate the ground and can protect some plants from deep freezing. However, as the air warms in the spring, the same snow becomes like the ice in a cooler. On warm springs days this can lead to fog and filtering of the sun for a double cooling effect.

[overtone]

 

 

However, as the air warms in the spring, the same snow becomes like the ice in a cooler.

The ground warms faster in the spring if it has been insulated by snow all winter. It warms from the bottom up, in tandem with the snow sublimating and melting from the top down.

[puppypower]

Water is interesting among nearly all liquids in that liquid water expands when it freezes. Even though water/ice expands at 0 C, it reaches a maximum density at about 4 degree C. What that means is, as the lake water gets colder at the surface, the surface water becomes denser and begins to sink, causing the warmer less dense water, below, to float upward. This create a convection requires that the bulk water of the lake has to reach about 4 C, before it can cool beyond that; cold water sinking. At 3 C water now begins to get less dense, therefore this water can stay on top of the 4 C water, with convention stopping at the top. When it reaches 0 C it freezes and expands about 10%. As the ice gets colder and colder the ice continues to float; still no convection. This is useful for life that lives in the bottom during winter.

 

As the Lakes get warmer, it takes longer to reach the 3 C point where the surface convection stops and ice can form.

Edited September 28, 2015 by puppypower

[MigL]

Generally winter sucks in western New York.

You should definitely move Elite Engineer.

 

I live in the Niagara region (( Canada side ), only about 30 min away, and by November we are usually making fun of Buffalo, already buried under 3 ft. of snow, while we have none.