Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 I understand that, those were my questions brought on by Tegmarks quote. No one knows whats possible in 3.5 billion years, so even talking about radio waves and how far they travel is absurdity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 OMG, I can't believe this thread is 20 pages long! On geocentrism, no less! I don't know what this has to do with the OP anymore, but has anyone mentioned that extra-terrestrial civilizations may not have dealt with the discovery of what you can do with uranium as well as we have? We still need to tread lightly, but the threat of destroying ourselves in global nuclear war diminishes as time goes by. But there were times when we could have pressed the buttons. Surviving knowledge that increases your destructive power by several orders of magnitude may not be easy, and may account for why we haven't seen any signs of colonization in the galaxy in the hundred years or so we've been looking seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) I understand that, those were my questions brought on by Tegmarks quote. No one knows whats possible in 3.5 billion years, so even talking about radio waves and how far they travel is absurdity. No it is a fact, not an absurdity. It will only travel at the speed of light at best and the signal will get less as it progresses. That BH merger announced the other day was only just able to pick up the last 0.3 seconds of an event that was in motion for billions of years. Signal strengths have to be so strong to get across the cosmos. .... Surviving knowledge that increases your destructive power by several orders of magnitude may not be easy, and may account for why we haven't seen any signs of colonization in the galaxy in the hundred years or so we've been looking seriously. True. Edited February 20, 2016 by Robittybob1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 OMG, I can't believe this thread is 20 pages long! On geocentrism, no less! I don't know what this has to do with the OP anymore, but has anyone mentioned that extra-terrestrial civilizations may not have dealt with the discovery of what you can do with uranium as well as we have? We still need to tread lightly, but the threat of destroying ourselves in global nuclear war diminishes as time goes by. But there were times when we could have pressed the buttons. Surviving knowledge that increases your destructive power by several orders of magnitude may not be easy, and may account for why we haven't seen any signs of colonization in the galaxy in the hundred years or so we've been looking seriously. That is something that has crossed my mind many times, and is one of the more insightful things ive read in this thread. But on the other hand, how do we know these other civilizations are as crazy as us humans and have that in their DNA? (do they even have DNA?) BTW i am the OP and i find these topics relevant to the discussion. No it is a fact, not an absurdity. It will only travel at the speed of light at best and the signal will get less as it progresses. Missed the point a bit there rob, im saying we cannot imagine the sort of technology a civilization could have invented in 3.5 bil years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) Missed the point a bit there rob, im saying we cannot imagine the sort of technology a civilization could have invented in 3.5 bil years. If we want to detect them we have to match theirs. Can we pick up radio on the TV. So the receiver has to match the signal. Unless they have a way of setting up BHs to merge they won't be doing it through gravitational waves. Distributing quantum entangled particles; could they be a possible method? Edited February 20, 2016 by Robittybob1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 Just to be clear to anyone new to the thread, i dont believe any life has ever existed in the cosmos outside of earth, but i like to entertain the idea. Its like when you watch movies you suspend yourself in disbelief otherwise you ruin it for yourself lol (bad analogy probably, best i can come up with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Just to be clear to anyone new to the thread, i dont believe any life has ever existed in the cosmos outside of earth, but i like to entertain the idea. Its like when you watch movies you suspend yourself in disbelief otherwise you ruin it for yourself lol (bad analogy probably, best i can come up with). The comment I usually get is that your beliefs count for nothing in the scheme of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) If we want to detect them we have to match theirs. Can we pick up radio on the TV. So the receiver has to match the signal. Unless they have a way of setting up BHs to merge they won't be doing it through gravitational waves. Distributing quantum entangled particles; could they be a possible method? So you are saying for us to determine if life has existed, we need to live another 3.499999 (repeating, of course (i hope someone gets that reference lol)) billion years to create a device to transcode signals buried in the cosmos? The comment I usually get is that your beliefs count for nothing in the scheme of things. Ya thats completely fair, i only said that because if someone was new to the thread and was reading thru it id want them to know where i stand on the topic (i seen a few guests reading). Edited February 20, 2016 by Scotty99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Just to be clear to anyone new to the thread, i dont believe any life has ever existed in the cosmos outside of earth, but i like to entertain the idea. Its like when you watch movies you suspend yourself in disbelief otherwise you ruin it for yourself lol (bad analogy probably, best i can come up with). Right, but when you're posting on a science discussion forum, evidence is better than guesswork and entertainment. Belief, other than what you can empirically trust, shouldn't come in to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) Right, but when you're posting on a science discussion forum, evidence is better than guesswork and entertainment. Belief, other than what you can empirically trust, shouldn't come in to it. What evidence do we have for life existing outside of earth? I get the gist of your post, but it seems to be pointed to my comment about life in the cosmos. Edited February 20, 2016 by Scotty99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 So you are saying for us to determine if life has existed, we need to live another 3.499999 (repeating, of course (i hope someone gets that reference lol)) billion years to create a device to transcode signals buried in the cosmos? .... It will be more likely an evolutionary process rather than technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 That is something that has crossed my mind many times, and is one of the more insightful things ive read in this thread. But on the other hand, how do we know these other civilizations are as crazy as us humans and have that in their DNA? (do they even have DNA?) We don't need to speculate on that. We have a very good history of development of nuclear technology, and we know how dangerous the path was for us. Crazy has little to do with it. It's about the fission reaction of the element, and what you can do with it once you think you've harnessed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 More tantalizing to me is Tegmarks quote Because it supports (or can be interpreted to) support your prejudices. How does it not say that? It suggests that the Earth may be (not "is") relatively unusual (not "different from nearly all other planets") in the total population of planets (not "all other planets that have been discovered"). Three misrepresentations in one sentence. Not bad, even by creationist levels of dishonesty. However, as their study includes a wide range of star types as well as both elliptical and disk galaxies, this is not too surprising. The main "mild" violation of the Copernican principle that they note is the fact that we are not in an elliptical galaxy. Is that really such a big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 It will be more likely an evolutionary process rather than technology. Right, i was only responding to the first line of your post about transmitters and receivers. And my comment was assuming we evolved intellectually at the same rate, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 What astounds me is how little media coverage this story has compared to gravitational waves, mind boggling actually. I wonder if you have read the paper yourself, or you are just relying on a few quotes about it? You seem to think that this is some sort of shocking breakthrough and yet they frequently show how their results are largely consistent with earlier work. Where there are differences, it is mainly because they are considering a wider range of stars and environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) We don't need to speculate on that. We have a very good history of development of nuclear technology, and we know how dangerous the path was for us. Crazy has little to do with it. It's about the fission reaction of the element, and what you can do with it once you think you've harnessed it. You missed the mark on this one, i knew that was part of what you were talking about. Im saying, who says this other civilization wouldnt be more careful and once they saw the destructive capabilities of such a technology, abandon it before that could happen. Edited February 20, 2016 by Scotty99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I obviously am not talking about us going to other planets and finding life, i mean anything. Why havent we found siginals of any form, or data in the form of light. If we are the toddlers in the universe, and life has existed before us we should absolutely be able to find traces imo. There are already several threads on the Fermi Paradox. Do we need another one? And i do think Tegmark has a point about the colonizing, 3.5 bil years would be more than enough for a civilization to be able to do that. And you know that how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 What evidence do we have for life existing outside of earth? I get the gist of your post, but it seems to be pointed to my comment about life in the cosmos. I don't think the gist has been gotten. I was making the observation that conquering uranium reactions prior to interstellar travel may be so difficult that only a very cooperative, communicative species can survive it. We may have a leg up on extraterrestrial species that way, considering cooperation and communication are two of our best evolutionary traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 If you paid a SECOND of interest you would realize im not saying this article is about geocentrism, Then why post it in a geocentrism thread? It's implied that what you post will be about the subject you want to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 You missed the mark on this one, i knew that was part of what you were talking about. Im saying, who says this other civilization wouldnt be more careful and once they saw the destructive capabilities of such a technology, abandon it before that could happen. No. You missed the mark if you think this kind of guesswork is interesting or productive to a scientific discussion. Most here prefer explanations that have support from actual evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 There are already several threads on the Fermi Paradox. Do we need another one? And you know that how? Well obviously i dont KNOW. But considering what humans have done in such a short time, and how relatively stupid we are you can extrapolate 3.5b years we would probably be ethereal beings that run on pure instinct and exacting knowledge of the cosmos (with the tools to harness every system of known energy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Right, i was only responding to the first line of your post about transmitters and receivers. And my comment was assuming we evolved intellectually at the same rate, of course. As in Darwinian or Neo-Darwinian evolution rather than just technological development. Is that what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty99 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 No. You missed the mark if you think this kind of guesswork is interesting or productive to a scientific discussion. Most here prefer explanations that have support from actual evidence. How can you assume another civilization would have the same tendencies as ours? Your comment is quite confusing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Well obviously i dont KNOW. But considering what humans have done in such a short time, and how relatively stupid we are you can extrapolate 3.5b years we would probably be ethereal beings that run on pure instinct and exacting knowledge of the cosmos (with the tools to harness every system of known energy). Stupid?! I will assume you're speaking for yourself, and not trying to insult the membership. How can you assume another civilization would have the same tendencies as ours? Your comment is quite confusing to me. I didn't. I posed it as a possibility of why you aren't seeing extraterrestrial civilizations, and I supported it with known facts. You're the one wandering into the weeds with this latest fallacy-filled guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 How can you assume another civilization would have the same tendencies as ours? Your comment is quite confusing to me. What's that word for parallel evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts