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Hellbender

A challenge for creationists.

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OKay I am sure at least some people on this site has ever heard the story creationists lke to parrot about Darwin's deathbed recanting? Apparently as Darwin was on his deathbed, he asked for a bible and apologized to god for comeing up with the theory of evolution or something along those lines. This really annoys me as even if this did happen, what does it change? So this is supposed to make all the observations concerning evolution null? I have a challenge for anyone who wants it. Find me a reliable, attributed source (i.e. "proof") that this took place. Any discussion about this topic or any related topics are welcome. -Hellbender

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sorry, your link didn't work. I don't believe this happened either, but I would welcome anyone who wants to try and prove me (and Demosthenes) wrong.

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I don't think it's really worth it to discuss with people that believe in a book ... in the bible .. in the actual words and not in the message, that this man Jesus tried to spread so that people kill and con each other a bit less. Genesis has been written even longer ago.

 

God and Evolution... completly different things. These people defend the Bible not religion..

 

God could have made up evolution, the chap is all powerful.

 

Don't waste your energy .. :)

 

Kinda a 19th century debate, really ... shame some people haven't moved on.

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Apparently as Darwin was on his deathbed, he asked for a bible and apologized to god for comeing up with the theory of evolution or something along those lines.

 

Firstly, I agree with you, this is complete bollocks. Secondly, [nitpicking] Darwin didn't come up with the theory of evolution, it was around for about fifty years before he was born. Darwin clarified and gave strength to the arguement for evolution, he also coined the term "survival of the fittest". But I'm sure we all know that[/nitpicking]

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grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...CREATION AND EVOLUTION HOVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. neither do creation and the big bang

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The only thing really upsetworthy is that actual valuable discussion about evolution would get you casted as creationist in case you would find loopholes.

 

If THEORETICALLY someone would come up with a better theory, who would swarm around them and basically destroy any reasonable discussion?

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I doubt it, too. It was just some stupid story made in a poor attempt to explain away the theory that they feel opposes their religion. It is not based out of facts but lies and hate.

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Y'know, thats the problem nowadays. You cant just sit around the fireplace and discuss about how you think things came about without offending somebody. Everybody has the right believe what they want, and its only out of common curtosy that he or she shouldnt be knocked for it. It cant be proven anyway, so theres no point in attacking others to make them believe what you believe.

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Darwin clarified and gave strength to the arguement for evolution, he also coined the term "survival of the fittest". But I'm sure we all know that[/nitpicking]

 

oops. yes I should have known this. He is the one who put evolution on the map so to speak.

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grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...CREATION AND EVOLUTION HOVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. neither do creation and the big bang

 

I agree, but most, if not all creationists fell that it does. Creationism is just the organizes religious response to what they think threatens their beliefs so much.

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I don't think it's really worth it to discuss with people that believe in a book ... in the bible .. in the actual words and not in the message' date=' that this man Jesus tried to spread so that people kill and con each other a bit less. Genesis has been written even longer ago.

 

God and Evolution... completly different things. These people defend the Bible not religion..

 

God could have made up evolution, the chap is all powerful.

 

Don't waste your energy .. :)

 

Kinda a 19th century debate, really ... shame some people haven't moved on.[/quote']

 

umm I kind of fail to see any sense in all this. I mean, it all makes sense, but I just don't know where you are coming from. I just aked if a creationist could provide an adequate source of where they heard this mumbo-jumbo. They are defending the bible...I never said they weren't.

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grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...CREATION AND EVOLUTION HOVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. neither do creation and the big bang

I wonder if you are serious.

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A philosopher (danged if I can remember or google out which one) was asked why he believed in God. In paraphrase, he replied, "If I live my life believing in God, and following his commandments, and die, and there is not, I have lost nothing. If I live my life immorally, and die, and learn that heaven is there, but so is hell, I have lost everything."

 

Nobody knows for sure - but if one knows death is imminent, one can hardly be blamed for wanting to hedge one's bets, so to speak.

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A philosopher (danged if I can remember or google out which one) was asked why he believed in God. In paraphrase, he replied, "If I live my life believing in God, and following his commandments, and die, and there is not, I have lost nothing. If I live my life immorally, and die, and learn that heaven is there, but so is hell, I have lost everything."

I guess that the title of philosopher carries no minimum implication of intelligence.

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sorry, your link didn't work. I don't believe this happened either, but I would welcome anyone who wants to try and prove me (and Demosthenes) wrong.

You arent wrong.

 

Try these links, by the way:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_cul4.htm - the first urban myth that pops up is the Darwin Recanting / Lady Hope myth.

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp - its also number one in the AiG's (a christian YECist organization) list of arguments creationists should not use.

 

A philosopher (danged if I can remember or google out which one) was asked why he believed in God. In paraphrase, he replied, "If I live my life believing in God, and following his commandments, and die, and there is not, I have lost nothing. If I live my life immorally, and die, and learn that heaven is there, but so is hell, I have lost everything."

That sounds to me like could be a paraphrasing of Pascal's Wager.

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A philosopher (danged if I can remember or google out which one) was asked why he believed in God. In paraphrase' date=' he replied, "If I live my life believing in God, and following his commandments, and die, and there is not, I have lost nothing. If I live my life immorally, and die, and learn that heaven is there, but so is hell, I have lost everything."

 

Nobody knows for sure - but if one knows death is imminent, one can hardly be blamed for wanting to hedge one's bets, so to speak.[/quote']

 

I'd rather face death with my integrity intact.

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Why don't we actually set a challenge for creationists that they can meet, even if it takes them a bit of effort? Like, say, being able to tie their shoelaces on their own?

 

Mokele

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umm I kind of fail to see any sense in all this. I mean, it all makes sense, but I just don't know where you are coming from. I just aked if a creationist could provide an adequate source of where they heard this mumbo-jumbo. They are defending the bible...I never said they weren't.

 

Didn't mean you, besides saying you shouldn't get upset. :)

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I wonder if you are serious.

 

i AM serious. show me one way that creation has anything to do with evolution or big bang.

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Does anyone who isn't a creationist actually care what creationists think?

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erm mabye people who take an interest in the wider world mabye? :) (i dont mean that in a patronising or sarcastic manner)

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i AM serious. show me one way that creation has anything to do with evolution or big bang.

Speakers of English have 2 primary patterns for their models of nature. These are science and religion.

 

Both of these models of nature recognize a beginning of the world. In science, this beginning is called the big bang. In religion, this beginning is called the creation. I think that the big bang of science and the creation of religion are analogous concepts. They have a number of analogous relationships. For example, in each case, this beginning began with light.

 

If you say that either religion or science is completely untrue and should be completely ignored, then I think that your contention might make sense. If you are interested in a comparison of these 2 models of nature, then I think that it is possible to recognize a relationship between them and the way that they formulate the beginning of the world.

 

When I asked you if you were serious, I did not mean to imply that there is something wrong with your thinking, but only that I was not sure if you were perhaps being facetious in making such a statement.

 

What is your position on this, if I might ask?

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Darwin clarified and gave strength to the arguement for evolution

The real issue here is that he suggested a way for evolution to occur. He called this Natural Selection. It meant that God was not required in the explanation. Darwin suffered with severe health problems and historians have suggested that he suffered from a psychosomatic disorder. This sounds very plausible when you think about the public's religious views in Victorian times.

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Does anyone who isn't a creationist actually care[/u'] what creationists think?

 

I don't consider myself a creationist, and I do care what they think. I, unlike most people on this site, don't discount God too easily.

 

And, by the way, Creationism and Evolution are two seperate things...they don't have anything to do with each other. They are 2 different and completely valid theories.

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