detecting ET inside our solar system

[Moontanman]

How difficult would it be to detect an extraterrestrial craft/colony inside our solar system?

 

I think we can assume they can generate power at least on a level that we can so assuming a moderate output of 1000 megawatts most of which would have to radiated away as waste heat at some point after it was used to do work "how far away could we detect such a source of infrared"?

 

Feel free to correct me if these assumptions are unreasonable or if you can think of a better model.

[Daedalus]

I would guess that it depends on the extraterrestial's intent by being in our solar system. If they are here to invade Earth, then they might employ some type of subterfuge to prevent us from detecting them until they are right on top of us. Perhaps they would invade Earth by disguising their craft as a comet like the Necromongers do from the Chronicles of Riddick : ) If they are peaceful and just want to meet us, then I would assume they would send us a message letting us know of their existence. However, if they are just cruising through our neighborhood, then I would presume that it would be as difficult as finding an asteroid or planetary body using current techniques, or by locating a signal that they may be producing.

[Moontanman]

I should have been more clear, my idea is that "they" have colonized the distant objects in our solar system, along with the similar object all over the galaxy and have little or no interest in planets. This ties in with my pet hypothesis that UFOs are the aliens occasionally checking us out but they are not really interested in planets but a rising civilization might interest some of them in the same way some scientists are interested in some distant primitive island culture.

 

Detecting their waste heat output would seem to be the best way to detect such free colonies, think of a rotating sphere or torus as possible colonies, everything they need is available in small bodies and they would avoid gravity wells.

 

I thought I had detailed this hypothesis in a dedicated thread but I can't find it. It has to do with the possibility of a civilization colonizing the entire galaxy in a few million years but instead of long trips to star to colonize planets I think they would more probably colonize via artificial colonies freely moving around in ort clouds or Kiuper belt like places and since the ort cloud stretches almost half way to the next star such colonies would be able to travel to the next ort cloud not much harder that traveling to the next ort cloud object.

 

Due to the large amount of resources represented by the ort cloud and other small bodies several civilizations could coexist and colonize the same stars with little or no competition for resources. In fact stars like Vega that have large amounts of small objects but no large planets would be preferred the spectral type of the star would irrelevant...

 

They should be detectable by their waste heat...

[Ophiolite]

If they are resident in the Oort cloud, where are they deriving their energy from. Out their the sun appears as no more than a bright star. Oort cloud objects are dominated by ices rather than lithophile elements, so radioactive sources are scanty. Are you assuming fusion? Plenty of hydrogen for that.

 

What evolutionary pathway do you envisage to account for their distaste for planets and for proximity to stars?

[Moontanman]

If they are resident in the Oort cloud, where are they deriving their energy from. Out their the sun appears as no more than a bright star. Oort cloud objects are dominated by ices rather than lithophile elements, so radioactive sources are scanty. Are you assuming fusion? Plenty of hydrogen for that.

 

Without controlled fusion such colonies become somewhat less than likely.

 

What evolutionary pathway do you envisage to account for their distaste for planets and for proximity to stars?

 

My thinking lies along the lines of an indigenous species colonizing their own planetary system via artificial colonies, as demand for metals is diminished by the advent of carbon based building materials the objects further out from their sun become more desirable.

 

Inhabitants of such colonies would eventually be so far removed from their home planet that going back would be difficult if not impossible due to lower gravity producing structures being easier to build ( I am assuming rotation of colonies to replace gravity) Eventually after thousands of generations these people would lose interest in planets, their artificial colonies become home and they adapt to those conditions as they continue to colonize their own stars ort cloud and utilize it for materials to build colonies and replace loses to their artificial biospheres.

 

The jump to the next stars ort cloud would be a natural leap and not so distant as trying to travel from their home planet to another stars planet in one trip since ort clouds can stretch as much as half way to the next star and that stars ort could boundary would be a short hop, this would result in colonization of that star and so on, slowly they could colonize the entire galaxy, no habitable planets necessary or even wanted.

 

In fact stars with extensive clouds of material instead of planets might be the most desirable and the type of star would be irrelevant...

[Daedalus]

I would imagine that we are still dealing with the same type of difficulty as locating a new asteroid or planetary body, except that we would be able to determine that such an object is out of place and unique given its location. For instance, a body radiating a lot of thermal energy in the kuiper belt would indicate that the body is either large enough to generate enough internal heat as to stand out from other kuiper belt objects, or is so out of place that it merits further investigation.

The Kuiper belt /ˈkaɪpər/ (rhymes with "viper"), sometimes called the EdgeworthKuiper belt, is a region of the Solar System beyond the planets, extending from the orbit of Neptune (at 30 AU) to approximately 50 AU from the Sun.[1] It is similar to the asteroid belt, but it is far larger20 times as wide and 20 to 200 times as massive.[2][3] Like the asteroid belt, it consists mainly of small bodies, or remnants from the Solar System's formation. While most asteroids are composed primarily of rock and metal, most Kuiper belt objects are composed largely of frozen volatiles (termed "ices"), such as methane, ammonia and water. The classical belt is home to at least three dwarf planets: Pluto, Haumea, and Makemake. Some of the Solar System's moons, such as Neptune's Triton and Saturn's Phoebe, are also believed to have originated in the region.[4][5]
...
The Kuiper belt is believed to consist of planetesimals; fragments from the original protoplanetary disc around the Sun that failed to fully coalesce into planets and instead formed into smaller bodies, the largest less than 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi) in diameter.

As we can see from the above bolded and underlined quotes from Wikipedia, such a body radiating a lot of thermal energy would most definitely stand out. However, unless the body's heat output / radiation was so extreme that we couldn't help but notice, it would still be difficult to find such an object due to the distances and sizes involved. However, new technologies / surveys are making it easier to detect such objects as outlined by this paper written by Chadwick A. Trujillo from Caltech.

The next decade of Kuiper belt object (KBO) science will be completely dominated by the output of two surveys. These two surveys, the Panoramic Survey Telescope and Rapid Response System (Pan-STARRS) and the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope (LSST), will increase the total number of known KBOs by factors of 25 to 150 over the next decade. This discovery rate will not be uniform it will come as a large flood of information during the first year of operation. If software development allows, additional depth may be gained in successive years if data can be combined across years to find bodies that are too faint to be detected in an individual visit. Not only will the surveys increase the number of objects dramatically, but they will also be sensitive to heliocentric distances far beyond 100 AU due to their multiyear survey methodology.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Daedalus

[Moontanman]

I would imagine that we are still dealing with the same type of difficulty as locating a new asteroid or planetary body, except that we would be able to determine that such an object is out of place and unique given its location. For instance, a body radiating a lot of thermal energy in the kuiper belt would indicate that the body is either large enough to generate enough internal heat as to stand out from other kuiper belt objects, or is so out of place that it merits further investigation.

 

Either way, unless the body's heat output / radiation was so extreme that we couldn't help but notice it, it would still be difficult to find such an object due to the distances and sizes involved. However, new technologies / surveys are making it easier to detect such objects as outlined by this paper written by Chadwick A. Trujillo from Caltech.

 

 

 

My little pet hypothesis depends on the idea that any such colonies should be detectable via waste heat, WISE I have been told wasn't sensitive enough to detect such small objects but it shouldn't be impossible with a little better tech...

 

Some problems I see with connecting this to the UFO phenomena is why would they be interested in us at all, why don't we detect any transmissions from them, and why are most if not all the aliens reported to have been encountered humanoid, the humanoid part is difficult to explain, us being occasionally checked out by resident aliens is fairly easy to justify...

[Daedalus]

My little pet hypothesis depends on the idea that any such colonies should be detectable via waste heat, WISE I have been told wasn't sensitive enough to detect such small objects but it shouldn't be impossible with a little better tech...

 

Some problems I see with connecting this to the UFO phenomena is why would they be interested in us at all, why don't we detect any transmissions from them, and why are most if not all the aliens reported to have been encountered humanoid, the humanoid part is difficult to explain, us being occasionally checked out by resident aliens is fairly easy to justify...

 

There are lots or reasons why aliens would be interested in us. For one, they might be interested in how life evolved on Earth and how we have evolved to deal with diseases. We find lots of medical / industrial uses from chemical interactions in lower life forms, and I imagine that aliens would also see the benefit in studying us for the same reasons, especially if our chemistry is different from what they have encountered. I'm not convinced that they would use us as slave because they would most likely not need slaves due to advanced robotic technologies. As for why we haven't detected any transmissions from them, it is possible that they have advanced communication capabilities that might use wormholes to transmit data as that would be the most optimal way of communicating over large distances.

 

The humaniod part isn't as difficult to explain as you suggest, at least when it comes to being able to develop technology. Without appendages that allow them to create and use tools, it would be practically impossible for them to create advanced technologies such as computers and integrated circuitry. While this does not truly imply that they need to be humanoid in shape, we can speculate that they would most likely have similar organs as we do because they would still need vision, hearing, etc... to be able to gain similar advantages that we also have when it comes to understanding and manipulating environments. I wouldn't be surprised if most aliens are humanoid given the advantages that it gives us.

[Ophiolite]

I wouldn't be surprised if most aliens are humanoid given the advantages that it gives us.

I understand the octopoid denizens of Alpha Centauri 4 have a similar view in regard to suckered appendages and invertebrate anatomy.

[Moontanman]

There are lots or reasons why aliens would be interested in us. For one, they might be interested in how life evolved on Earth and how we have evolved to deal with diseases. We find lots of medical / industrial uses from chemical interactions in lower life forms, and I imagine that aliens would also see the benefit in studying us for the same reasons, especially if our chemistry is different from what they have encountered.

 

I agree, an emerging technological civilization in their midst would have to interesting if they are anything like us at all. Actually even though it's possible that many different species occupy the same ort clouds a planet with complex life could still be rare and worthy of investigation...

 

I'm not convinced that they would use us as slave because they would most likely not need slaves due to advanced robotic technologies.

 

Bob Lazar would disagree but that is another thread for sure.

 

As for why we haven't detected any transmissions from them, it is possible that they have advanced communication capabilities that might use wormholes to transmit data as that would be the most optimal way of communicating over large distances.

 

I am trying to avoid technologies that go beyond what we are capable of, fusion of course is just "ten years away" but things like worm holes are highly speculative and the more such magical technologies you add the more meaningless the speculation becomes IMHO.

 

The humaniod part isn't as difficult to explain as you suggest, at least when it comes to being able to develop technology. Without appendages that allow them to create and use tools, it would be practically impossible for them to create advanced technologies such as computers and integrated circuitry. While this does not truly imply that they need to be humanoid in shape, we can speculate that they would most likely have similar organs as we do because they would still need vision, hearing, etc... to be able to gain similar advantages that we also have when it comes to understanding and manipulating environments. I wouldn't be surprised if most aliens are humanoid given the advantages that it gives us.

 

While there is indeed a school of thought that agrees with your assessment the fossil record of life on Earth seems to indicate that vertebrates almost didn't make the cut while a great many different invertebrates have been suppressed by the evolution of vertebrates. I often wonder about invertebrates with internal skeletons... lots of potential there i think.

 

I understand the octopoid denizens of Alpha Centauri 4 have a similar view in regard to suckered appendages and invertebrate anatomy.

 

 

isn't there a novel or two about intelligent cephalopods from another reality invading the earth or something, one of the few I missed evidently... If octopus lived as long as humans they would be our over lords...

 

Arthropods could be a better bet...

 

[Daedalus]

I understand the octopoid denizens of Alpha Centauri 4 have a similar view in regard to suckered appendages and invertebrate anatomy.

 

LOL... That's a good one. I admit that my statements regarding aliens as most likely having humanoid form is a slippery slope and easy to pick apart. Perhaps I should've stated that aliens would at least require appendages that allowed them to create and use tools, and keep my opinion regarding their form to myself. However, having a humanoid form, at least in regards to life on Earth, has proven to give us tremendous advantages that other life forms here on Earth do not have (such as being able to create and use complex tools).

 

Bob Lazar would disagree but that is another thread for sure.

 

Well if I had a choice between a slave or a robot that could do the same tasks as a slave. I would choose the robot because it probably could do a better job than the slave and work many more hours. Of course, there could exist the type of alien that finds amusement in enslaving a population. Maybe they would enslave us and use robots to crack the whips lol.

 

I am trying to avoid technologies that go beyond what we are capable of, fusion of course is just "ten years away" but things like worm holes are highly speculative and the more such magical technologies you add the more meaningless the speculation becomes IMHO.

 

I agree. I was just trying to speculate why we don't detect transmissions from them outside the "they are too far away" hypothesis. It could also be that they use a very broad range of frequencies when transmitting a single message. Such technique would make it harder to detect the message, and could possibly hide their existence from other aliens that would be potential threats if they knew where they were.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Daedalus

[pwagen]

While this do I wouldn't be surprised if most aliens are humanoid given the advantages that it gives us.

While it gives us an advantage due to how we've evolved and adapted to our surroundings, what's to say other species elsewhere adapted to a different kind of environment which favored a different kind of body? With the success of insects here, for example, it's easy to imagine a slight turn of events would have had some form of insect come out on top and be the first species to travel off the planet's surface.

 

But, I realize that's a bit off-topic. So as for the original question of how difficult it would be to detect alien presence in our solar system, that would depend on how hard it is to see crop circles on Mars.

Edited March 23, 2013 by pwagen

[Daedalus]

While it gives us an advantage due to how we've evolved and adapted to our surroundings, what's to say other species elsewhere adapted to a different kind of environment which favored a different kind of body? With the success of insects here, for example, it's easy to imagine a slight turn of events would have had some form of insect come out on top and be the first species to travel off the planet's surface.

 

That's why I retracted my statement, and now favor functionality instead of form. However, functionality and form are closely related, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if most aliens turn out to be humaniod.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Daedalus

[Moontanman]

So, does anyone have any ideas about how detect aliens inside our solar system? Can we use current technology to detect them?

[swansont]

So, does anyone have any ideas about how detect aliens inside our solar system? Can we use current technology to detect them?

 

How would you detect technologically advanced life on earth, from a distance? I would guess from seeing a non-thermal radiation profile, e.g. radio and TV broadcasts.

[Moontanman]

How would you detect technologically advanced life on earth, from a distance? I would guess from seeing a non-thermal radiation profile, e.g. radio and TV broadcasts.

 

 

So you are assuming that such colonies would be broad casting TV signals? Both radio and TV signals leaked from the Earth are not detectable over interstellar distances but I do see your point about such colonies communicating with each other but would they necessarily do it via omni directional radio waves? I admit this is a weakness in my hypothesis, hard to see why we wouldn't detect then unless they were intentionally trying not to be detected. If a great many species are involved then I can see the possibility they might want to make their communication cryptic...

[Tamorph]

I think we can assume they can generate power at least on a level that we can

That's quite an assumption, but may be untrue.

 

We tend to search for other life forms that work in the same way as life on Earth, and that's understandable because it's the only type of life form we know. However (as this is in the 'speculation' section) let's speculate about some completely different forms of life.

 

Example One: Instead of seeing growth, movement, and energy use in terms of our time-scale, what would we look for if 'live things' lived a life like ours but over millions of years. Growth may be extremely slow, movements may be only a fraction of an inch every few years, power generated would be imperceivable. Just because the human race has not lived long enough to see something move, reproduce, generate power, etc. we can't just assume that something is dead. Humans have only been around for a relatively short time. If something lived for tens of millions of years we may see it as inanimate during our lifetime.

 

Example Two: Similarly, if something has a lifetime of only a millionth of a millionth of a second we wouldn't be aware of that either.

 

In order to consider all the possibilities of 'alien' life we need to think outside of our constraints of 'Earth' life.

 

A life lived for millions of millions of years, with slow metabolism, would be invisible to us as 'life'.

A life lived for only a millionth of a millionth of a second, with resulting quick metabolism, would also be effectively invisible to us as 'life'.

 

I write as someone who has had a 'pet rock' since the pet rock craze in the 1970's (complete with a drawn face). I swear it's moved several times over the the past forty years and I once found it in the trash, but my wife swears she never put it there!

[CaptainPanic]

It would make sense for the aliens to radiate their waste heat away from the sun (even if they are really far away, on a rock in the Oort cloud). It's just more efficient to have a radiator in the shadow. So, we should not be looking for a large waste heat signature.

 

I would also think that they may send some radio-type of signal?

Alternatively, if their space-base is large enough, it may emit sufficient radiation of whatever wavelength the aliens use to see (our equivalent of visible light).

 

If you're sitting on a space rock in the Oort cloud, it is not very difficult to hide from us here on Earth.

[Moontanman]

That's quite an assumption, but may be untrue.

 

We tend to search for other life forms that work in the same way as life on Earth, and that's understandable because it's the only type of life form we know. However (as this is in the 'speculation' section) let's speculate about some completely different forms of life.

 

Example One: Instead of seeing growth, movement, and energy use in terms of our time-scale, what would we look for if 'live things' lived a life like ours but over millions of years. Growth may be extremely slow, movements may be only a fraction of an inch every few years, power generated would be imperceivable. Just because the human race has not lived long enough to see something move, reproduce, generate power, etc. we can't just assume that something is dead. Humans have only been around for a relatively short time. If something lived for tens of millions of years we may see it as inanimate during our lifetime.

 

Example Two: Similarly, if something has a lifetime of only a millionth of a millionth of a second we wouldn't be aware of that either.

 

In order to consider all the possibilities of 'alien' life we need to think outside of our constraints of 'Earth' life.

 

A life lived for millions of millions of years, with slow metabolism, would be invisible to us as 'life'.

A life lived for only a millionth of a millionth of a second, with resulting quick metabolism, would also be effectively invisible to us as 'life'.

 

I write as someone who has had a 'pet rock' since the pet rock craze in the 1970's (complete with a drawn face). I swear it's moved several times over the the past forty years and I once found it in the trash, but my wife swears she never put it there!

 

It seems unlikely that such creatures would ever leave their home planet much less colonize the ort cloud...

 

It would make sense for the aliens to radiate their waste heat away from the sun (even if they are really far away, on a rock in the Oort cloud). It's just more efficient to have a radiator in the shadow. So, we should not be looking for a large waste heat signature.

 

I would also think that they may send some radio-type of signal?

Alternatively, if their space-base is large enough, it may emit sufficient radiation of whatever wavelength the aliens use to see (our equivalent of visible light).

 

If you're sitting on a space rock in the Oort cloud, it is not very difficult to hide from us here on Earth.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of artificial space colonies that would use ort cloud objects as raw materials, not actually colonize the ort cloud objects themselves. The radio signal is a stumbling block for sure unless they have some over riding reason to hide from each other which would of course make them very difficult to detect by us as well...

 

I guess they could use signals in wave lengths we do not use but I'm not sure that would hide them from us.

 

Oh well it was a good idea slain by the reality of the situation...

[Daedalus]

I would also think that they may send some radio-type of signal?

 

Although it makes sense, at least to us, to use radio-type signals to transmit messages, the aliens could use other technologies to communicate messages. For instance, it is possible to use neutrinos to send messages through mediums that would be impossible for electromagnetic radiation.

 

A group of scientists led by researchers from the University of Rochester and North Carolina State University have for the first time sent a message using a beam of neutrinos -- nearly massless particles that travel at almost the speed of light. The message was sent through 240 meters of stone and said simply, "Neutrino."

...

"Using neutrinos, it would be possible to communicate between any two points on Earth without using satellites or cables," said Dan Stancil, professor of electrical and computer engineering at NC State and lead author of a paper describing the research. "Neutrino communication systems would be much more complicated than today's systems, but may have important strategic uses."

...

Many have theorized about the possible uses of neutrinos in communication because of one particularly valuable property: they can penetrate almost anything they encounter. If this technology could be applied to submarines, for instance, then they could conceivably communicate over long distances through water, which is difficult, if not impossible, with present technology. And if we wanted to communicate with something in outer space that was on the far side of a moon or a planet, our message could travel straight through without impediment.

...

Today, most communication is carried out by sending and receiving electromagnetic waves. That is how our radios, cell phones, and televisions operate. But electromagnetic waves don't pass easily through most types of matter. They get blocked by water and mountains and many other liquids and solids. Neutrinos, on the other hand, regularly pass through entire planets without being disturbed. Because of their neutral electric charge and almost non-existent mass, neutrinos are not subject to magnetic attractions and are not significantly altered by gravity, so they are virtually free of impediments to their motion.

 

Of course, such technology poses extremely difficult problems to overcome, such as a reliable way of detecting the nuetrinos. However, using nuetrinos is possible and has the advantage of being able to penetrate through most obstacles they encounter, not to mention that they travel near the speed of light. Unfortunately, this doesn't really help the arugment except to further complicate what might be needed to detect alien messages.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Daedalus

[SplitInfinity]

I should have been more clear, my idea is that "they" have colonized the distant objects in our solar system, along with the similar object all over the galaxy and have little or no interest in planets. This ties in with my pet hypothesis that UFOs are the aliens occasionally checking us out but they are not really interested in planets but a rising civilization might interest some of them in the same way some scientists are interested in some distant primitive island culture.

 

Detecting their waste heat output would seem to be the best way to detect such free colonies, think of a rotating sphere or torus as possible colonies, everything they need is available in small bodies and they would avoid gravity wells.

 

I thought I had detailed this hypothesis in a dedicated thread but I can't find it. It has to do with the possibility of a civilization colonizing the entire galaxy in a few million years but instead of long trips to star to colonize planets I think they would more probably colonize via artificial colonies freely moving around in ort clouds or Kiuper belt like places and since the ort cloud stretches almost half way to the next star such colonies would be able to travel to the next ort cloud not much harder that traveling to the next ort cloud object.

 

Due to the large amount of resources represented by the ort cloud and other small bodies several civilizations could coexist and colonize the same stars with little or no competition for resources. In fact stars like Vega that have large amounts of small objects but no large planets would be preferred the spectral type of the star would irrelevant...

 

They should be detectable by their waste heat...

Moon...if you are familiar with the work of Dr. T. Townsend Brown...you will see that his work was applied to design and build the IR-Light Cloak that is currently a part of and used by the F/A-22 Raptor.

 

The Raptor is a Stealth Aircraft but given todays abilities of IR seeking Missiles...the Raptors engine Heat Signature has been cloaked by several processes...one being the cooling of exhaust and the second being an Electromagnetic Cloak based upon the work of Dr. T. Townsend Brown.

 

This Cloak hides the Raptors Engines IR-Light emmisions as to protect the aircraft from being targeted by ground or air launched Heat Seeking Missiles.

 

Now if HUMANS can do this now...imagine what the IR-Light Cloaking Capabilities would be for an Advanced Alien Race?

 

Split Infinity

[pwagen]

Moon...if you are familiar with the work of Dr. T. Townsend Brown...you will see that his work was applied to design and build the IR-Light Cloak that is currently a part of and used by the F/A-22 Raptor.

 

The Raptor is a Stealth Aircraft but given todays abilities of IR seeking Missiles...the Raptors engine Heat Signature has been cloaked by several processes...one being the cooling of exhaust and the second being an Electromagnetic Cloak based upon the work of Dr. T. Townsend Brown.

 

This Cloak hides the Raptors Engines IR-Light emmisions as to protect the aircraft from being targeted by ground or air launched Heat Seeking Missiles.

 

Now if HUMANS can do this now...imagine what the IR-Light Cloaking Capabilities would be for an Advanced Alien Race?

From what I can find, humans can't do this, as there's no information on any such shielding in the F/A-22. Where did you get this information?

[Moontanman]

From what I can find, humans can't do this, as there's no information on any such shielding in the F/A-22. Where did you get this information?

 

 

I agree but even if we can indeed do this we would have to do it by using the air to cool the exhaust, a colony in space would not have this luxury. The only reasonable way to shed heat in space it by radiators, since space is much like a vacuum bottle radiating away waste heat would be a problem, you might be able to to do it in a specific direction but that would imply you were trying to hide to begin with which implies any alien colonies already either already had an agenda of stealth before they ever arrived or are relative newcomers to the solar system which would refute my idea completely...,

 

Oh yeah, I agree with pwagen, some citation for this idea about the F-22 Raptor is needed...

[SplitInfinity]

From what I can find, humans can't do this, as there's no information on any such shielding in the F/A-22. Where did you get this information?

 

I will give you a link that gives specific information as well as a listing of sources that information comes from. Since there is a lot of documented information...look for the term ELECTROGRAVITIC...which applies to both the F-22 and B-2 as well as a variety of experimental and secret craft in many aspects as well as ELECTROMAGNETIC CLOAKING...which is what is being talked about here...LINK http://www.info-quest.org/documents/antigravity.html

 

I know Dr. T. Townsend Browns daughter LINDA as well as had many conversations with the members of a Development Team that work, design and build many things specific to the work done by Dr. T. Townsend Brown. Dr. Brown...now deceased...held an Above Top-Secret Clearance and was a Central Figure in the now very famous...Philladelphia Experiment...which WAS NOT A FICTIONAL EVENT.

 

"LIFTERS"....which are something anyone here can look up on the internet...are specific to some of Dr. Brown's work and the vast majority of his work is still classified today.

 

Split Infinity

[pwagen]

 

I will give you a link that gives specific information as well as a listing of sources that information comes from. Since there is a lot of documented information...look for the term ELECTROGRAVITIC...which applies to both the F-22 and B-2 as well as a variety of experimental and secret craft in many aspects as well as ELECTROMAGNETIC CLOAKING...which is what is being talked about here...LINK http://www.info-quest.org/documents/antigravity.html

Do you even read your own links before you post them? That link has nothing to do with cloaking, at all. It describes this "electrogravitic" as a way to make the crafts go faster and consume less fuel. While we could go on and look at the sources (I'm sure "A.H. knows what he's talking about, for example), that would be futile since the link still has nothing to do with shielding of the engines.

 

There's also not a single mention of "electromagnetic cloaking" anywhere. "Electromagnetic" is used 10 times, but that means nothing as the context is very different from what you claim. "Cloaking" is nowhere to be seen. And also lacking is the description of the F-22 having any of this alleged technology.

 

 

I know Dr. T. Townsend Browns daughter LINDA as well as had many conversations with the members of a Development Team that work, design and build many things specific to the work done by Dr. T. Townsend Brown.

I'm sure you know this, as you seem to be sitting on information not available to us mere mortals.

 

 

 

[...]the now very famous...Philladelphia Experiment...which WAS NOT A FICTIONAL EVENT.

Oh lordy....

 

 

 

"LIFTERS"....which are something anyone here can look up on the internet...are specific to some of Dr. Brown's work and the vast majority of his work is still classified today.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionocraft

 

 

The term "lifter" is an accurate description because it is not an anti-gravity device, but produces lift in the same sense as a rocket from the reaction force from driving the ionized air downward.

 

Great, so he made a science fair project. Where's the anti-gravity?