rigney Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) rigney; It's my opinion. gravity is simply missing some component to accurately explain, how it works and it does seem to work in more than one way. I've tried to bring motion, velocity and environmental conditions (friction) into the equations (back when interested) and still feel it might play a roll, if not with gravity, in combination as to an effect. I doubt any person here truly believes any theory for gravity, from Newton's Theories to Einstein's, is complete and all conclusive. As for the "need to know math", I'm sorry but anything can be explained, frankly as CR has this thread has demonstrated (disbursement), with out the listener needing do know any math. Many of these fine folks telling you math is required and I'll assume do know math, seem to forget all they know, when the discussion turns to politics and the US deficit. Anyway here is a good list of questions and answers that might be interesting to you and is meant for those first getting interested in this issue or others and I'm not trying to be funny. You don't have to be a kid to first get interested in Science or any field of it... http://www.windows2universe.org/kids_space/qphy_grav.html On the Electromagnetic Field question; Are you suggesting or thinking this might plays a role on gravity, even if indirectly? Your last question about electromagnetic fields? To deny what we know about gravity, should get you committed? The effects of it? I see as a stream running by, and me with only a fish net; trying to curb its movement. Could anything be more ridiculous? No! Since gravity is as gravity does, you can't disagree with it in a rational sense. But that's why there are backs on cards. Until you see the other side, you don't really know what you're dealing with. Gravity, like the card is something we know that it's there, and you're wishing for a couple Aces. And even as I believe magnetism is the intrinsic lifes blood of our universe, I can't prove it any more than disproving gravity. Right now gravity has the upper hand. I'm just hoping the Higgs boson will shed a little light on both. Then you were talking about the electric universe. Either you were or you weren't; pick one. I'm only guessing, but you evidently don't like my approach to making, or repling to posts? And for that, I feel bad, I really do. Actually, I put that video in this post as total conjecture, nothing more. Moontanman has already "scathed" hell out of me for doing so. But many of you guys only read what you want to see. If you had looked closer, you would have seen that it wasn't my concept at all. Would some of you be a bit more perfunctury than just slamming the s-it out of me when I make what you believe to be a mistake? But then, Hey! I appreciated your post on how to use the system more efficently. Not that I've gotten much better at it! See what you're dealing with? Edited February 14, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) Rigney, are you sure you ain't my daddy? Better at what exactly? Edited February 14, 2011 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) People wanted to be fooled. There's a sucker born every minute. The same does apply here. People who know better have said this is a crock, and that is all this is: A crock. There are lot more people out there who do not understand science and want to believe something than there are people who do know science. It is a lot easier and a lot more profitable to pander nonsense than it is to do real science (or real economics). This is the basis behind all of the electric universe nonsense, the 2012 nonsense, the young earth creationist nonsense, and a whole lot of other nonsense that can be found on the internet these days. There is a lot of good information on the internet. Unfortunately, there is even more bad information than good on the 'net. Learning to distinguish between the bad and the good admittedly is not easy. This electric universe / plasma universe / plasma cosmology crap has been pitched one too many times (or rather, ten-plus too many times) just at this site. To be rather blunt, it gets kinda old seeing the same nonsense come up again and again. To make matters worse, there is no arguing with crackpots; they are after all immune to logic and evidence. I am not saying that rigney is a crackpot. He has however been duped by crackpots. Dupe me? Na! A good piece of t-il might have swayed me, but under normal circumstances, I'm way beyond being duped. As I've said, me and this forum began back in May of last year and I've loved every minute of it! My past seventy seven years + can't even come close to the knowledge I (should have)? soaked up over the past few months. Wisdom is not what we know, but that which we seek. Rigney, are you sure you ain't my daddy? Better at what exactly? Na! guy. I've told you time and time again; the Crow sh-t yu' and the sun hatched you". Yo' Momma and Daddy ain't got nothin' to do with it! Da' finds you in de turnip patch. quote and unquotes. Edited February 14, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Na! guy. I've told you time and time again; the Crow sh-t yu' and the sun hatched you". Yo' Momma and Daddy ain't got nothin' to do with it! Da' finds you in de turnip patch. quote and unquotes. I knew I was an asshole baby.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) I knew I was an asshole baby.... Na Man! don't beat's on youself to hard. If people like you not comin' inta the Carolinas, they be a welfare state fo sure. When I gets there, it probably gonna fall that ways anyhow. Edited February 14, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steevey Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Nothing is ever created out of thin air, and the reason NASA would have purposely not shown something is because there wasn't enough evidence to support it. And jets aren't a contradiction because they wouldn't have passed through the event horizon of the black hole before they were shot outward so they can still travel below the speed of light and escape. On top of that, accretion disks are in fact observed in numerous quasars using a variety of difference wavelengths, and can even be seen in forming solar systems (I think in the orion or crab nebula) or around forming stars and sometimes projecting matter outwards in the form of jets. They might be called "haro-herbig" objects or something similar to that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbig%E2%80%93Haro_object. I also don't see what the sun having a hotter corona has to do with NASA conspiracy, even they believe it exists and one of the explanations in mainstream science for temperature differences in the sun is already magnetic lines fluctuation. Edited February 17, 2011 by steevey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D H Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Your post looks rather out of place, steevey. Were you replying to a post in some other thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) You should probably refrain from embedding irrelevant videos if you'd like to be understood more clearly. Just got around to replying, and wondered why you of all people would consider the video irrelevant? Since electricity is not a novel thing to me, and being that you have worked with nuclear power generation, I assume it isn't novel to you either. I put the video in to let others understand why someone might have this fit of grandure. "I don't", but neither do I consider it irrelevant. When you're smart enough, and have all of the answers, then make that statement. Otherwise, keep it in the ballyard. I don't know if these people have a case at all, but neither do you. So, don't be nasty, just civil. I believe in a supreme creator deity, yes. But that falls strictly out of the realm of what can and cannot be tested. If there was provided conclusive, factual, tangible evidence that God did not exist, I would cease to believe in him. However, when you make claims that science can test, and those tests show that your claim was false, then you have to accept that. Continuing to believe those claims isn't skepticism. It's dogma. Where did I make a claim that was either true or false? I made no claims. Read what I wrote, not what you thought I had written. Gravity being magnetism is trivially falsified. Magnetic dipoles give a force varying as r^3, and our orbits demands a 1/r^2 force. No disrespect, but what are you trying to tell me? Trivially falcified? What is that even rationally supposed to mean? You have no idea of what magnetism is no more than you do gravity. Yet you say "Trivially Falsified". I'm sure you have a better answer than that?Am I supposed to be impressed with this? Then you were talking about the electric universe. Either you were or you weren't; pick one. Since you seem to have all of the answers and know my thoughts, we don't need for everyone to know my mind. You pick one. Edited February 18, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mississippichem Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) No disrespect, but what are you trying to tell me? Trivially falcified? What is that even rationally supposed to mean? You have no idea of what magnetism is no more than you do gravity. Yet you say "Trivially Falsified". I'm sure you have a better answer than that? Actually swansont's answer is the paragon of simple and explanatory. I imagine he is saying that with basic knowledge of the behaviors of gravity and magnetism, the "electric universe" hypothesis is falsified [proven wrong] without much mathematical rigor, deep thought, or experiments. The force of gravity diminishes as an inverse square. The force of magnetism diminishes as an inverse cube. There's not much that is cryptic or technical about that. Edited February 18, 2011 by mississippichem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 No disrespect, but what are you trying to tell me? Trivially falcified? What is that even rationally supposed to mean? You have no idea of what magnetism is no more than you do gravity. Yet you say "Trivially Falsified". I'm sure you have a better answer than that? Ultimately, I don't have any idea of what magnetism is, nor gravity. But I do have a decent idea about how each phenomenon behaves, and as I'm a scientist, that's the important thing. No, I don't have a better answer than that. I shouldn't need one. Magnetic dipoles do not behave the way they would need to in order to account for planetary orbits. That's it. It's a mortal wound. I don't see why I need to kill it more than once. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Tripolation Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Where did I make a claim that was either true or false? I made no claims. Read what I wrote, not what you thought I had written. Right here: By the way' date=' I believe our [b']magnetic universe, was infinately designed, [/b]long before the first "Big Bang". You then post a video about the electric universe. Which has been falsified. Edited February 18, 2011 by A Tripolation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Today, 04:10 PM mississippichem: Actually swansont's answer is the paragon of simple and explanatory. Please, What does the statement mean? Edited February 19, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Please, What does the statement mean? It means it was about as straightforward as a science explanation can get. It was simple and definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Rigney, what swansont was saying is this. By obseving the orbits of planets we can see that they require a force that reduces by the square of the distance to have the orbits they do. Magnetism reduces by the cube of the distance. Therefore it can't be magnetism. This is what "trivially falsified" means in this case. Think of it like a police investigation. You have the weapon and 10 suspects. The weapon can only be used by a right handed person. One of your suspects has no right arm. Therefore he can't possibly have used the weapon. So the idea that he is the killer is "trivially falsified" and he is eliminated as a suspect. You don't need to know anything else about any of the suspects except that one fact for a "first round" elimination of suspects. For similar reasons magnetism is eliminated in the first round when considering orbits and gravity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Rigney, what swansont was saying is this. By obseving the orbits of planets we can see that they require a force that reduces by the square of the distance to have the orbits they do. Magnetism reduces by the cube of the distance. Therefore it can't be magnetism. This is what "trivially falsified" means in this case. Think of it like a police investigation. You have the weapon and 10 suspects. The weapon can only be used by a right handed person. One of your suspects has no right arm. Therefore he can't possibly have used the weapon. So the idea that he is the killer is "trivially falsified" and he is eliminated as a suspect. You don't need to know anything else about any of the suspects except that one fact for a "first round" elimination of suspects. For similar reasons magnetism is eliminated in the first round when considering orbits and gravity. I suppose being bald, fat, old and ugly, plus senile, should give you pause for thought. Ok! senility, anyhow. I realize the concepts of magnetism and gravity are quite different. What science has done in space over the past fifty years would have been impossibe without understanding how gravity functions. There would be no satellites, space stations, moon walks, missions to Mars or shots out into our galaxy. The USSR would have probably snuffed us long before now. Having just a smidge of knowledge as to how our universe works, I probably should have kept my mouth shut. From now on I will try understanding more of what's going on before jumping in with both feet. At least, I hope so? Thanks J.B. To the rest of the forum, you can see what you're dealing with? Edited February 19, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Mate, don't beat yourself up. I too am balding, overweight and older. (I like to think I have retained the rugged good looks and dashing countenence of my youth though. ) And neither of us is senile. The boffins and us unlettered ones often don't quite speak the same language. I've just been around long enough to be able to function as interpreter sometimes. Because you think and ask questions, you'll be doing the same thing before too long. One of the big things I've learned is to automatically insert "Well our current, best theory is...." in front of any answer to questions about gravity, magnetism or electricity. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Mate, don't beat yourself up. I too am balding, overweight and older. (I like to think I have retained the rugged good looks and dashing countenence of my youth though. ) And neither of us is senile. The boffins and us unlettered ones often don't quite speak the same language. I've just been around long enough to be able to function as interpreter sometimes. Because you think and ask questions, you'll be doing the same thing before too long. One of the big things I've learned is to automatically insert "Well our current, best theory is...." in front of any answer to questions about gravity, magnetism or electricity. Cheers. Do appreciate your testimony John B., but gotta tell you; I'm just a grizzled old Hill Billy Coot with a mentality of the forties and a head to match, hard as a rock. Sometimes I jump in the water before checking how deep it is, only to find after taking the plunge, it's over my head and I can't swim. Then, the Gators and Crocks in that hole are usually a lot tougher than me. That sort of lets the fun slip away real quick. Just kidding! In the past few months I've come to fully understand my ignorance of the universe, not my stupidity, which there is plenty of. And while I'm not too swift at calculations, I do follow the reasoning of many of these theories. But questions without a preponderance, don't ask. Wow! Some of these guys are a little touchy and with good reason I suppose. So, for the time being, I'll leave it right there and be more cautious when bringing a penknife to a gun fight thinking it will do the job. 'Thanks." I'll try watching my Ps and Qs for a while, but it's doubtful that I will ever learn even a bit of etiqutte or decorum? And that dashing savoir-faire thing? Been lots of years since I've seen it in the mirror. Edited February 21, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel123456 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 What's happening here? Senility! (I had the impression that most people on this forum was very (very) young). What are you doing? No no no, you have to fight till the end, never give up, especially when you realize you were wrong. Never admit a defeat. And you, John, you must laugh and ridiculize your adversary. Beat him to death.That's the way it should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) What's happening here? Senility! (I had the impression that most people on this forum was very (very) young). What are you doing? No no no, you have to fight till the end, never give up, especially when you realize you were wrong. Never admit a defeat. And you, John, you must laugh and ridiculize your adversary. Beat him to death.That's the way it should go Wrong? no not wrong! just inquisitive. But without proper knowledge of the rules, it's dangerous. And the mere thought of senility doesn't do a thing for me. My knees are what hurt, not my mind. But I do in all honesty dislike and even distain some people who think they know every thing there is to know. Not that I'm saying that you fit that mold. But some folks, bless their hearts, they do. If I may, I'd like to ask you a question that only this morning I posed on google. Did our ancients like, Einstein, Hubble, Voltair, Newton and the like, set standards for what we today are still trying to figure out? But then, just how far can you unravel the mystery of our solar system as compared to that of an atom? And while both may seem to function somewhat the same, they, as far as my opinion, are not. Edited February 21, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel123456 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Rigney. When I engage conversation with someone, I always begin full of respect, mainly because I don't know the other person. Sometimes, respect diminishes. Sometimes not. You belong to the second category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigney Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Rigney. When I engage conversation with someone, I always begin full of respect, mainly because I don't know the other person. Sometimes, respect diminishes. Sometimes not. You belong to the second category. If I've read you right, thanks. Appreciation from ant quarter should nor be taken lightly in any form. It's just a bit tough here on the forum trying to read into a motive you're not quite sure of. What we know on occasion may not supply an ant with sustinance, since few of us are genius, yours truely included. But my questions and answers are very simple, which may not always fit well with some. But to others, they might offer an alternate perspective. There are no absolutes out here at the moment, only meaningful and some proven hypothesis. Hope this don't sound like a preach? Edited February 21, 2011 by rigney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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