Ram jet (curving) bullets

[zombieSquirrel]

I was just thinking about the curving bullet episode on mythbusters, when I thought about the possibility of making a ram jet bullet, using a phosphorous coated magnesium core, or something like that. The friction of air passing through would ignite the phosphorous, and that would ignite the magnesium.

 

If this ram jet bullet were to eject the exhaust at an angle, do you think it could be a working curving bullet? Obviously the curve wouldn't be as extreme as the ones in the movie.

 

I'm also curious as to if a ram jet bullet (non curving) could have a place in the military or in sporting. Perhaps long range sniping or reduced recoil?

[DrP]

Not quite the same, but the Germans made a gun (or an attatchment to one) that would allow you to shoot round corners. Here it is: http://www.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.2482 I don't think it was that accurate, but it allowed covering fire to be layed down without having to stick your head out from your cover.

 

 

Looking at the picture further it appears that it had a periscope sight with it as well, so it could be aimed.

[foodchain]

I was just thinking about the curving bullet episode on mythbusters, when I thought about the possibility of making a ram jet bullet, using a phosphorous coated magnesium core, or something like that. The friction of air passing through would ignite the phosphorous, and that would ignite the magnesium.

 

If this ram jet bullet were to eject the exhaust at an angle, do you think it could be a working curving bullet? Obviously the curve wouldn't be as extreme as the ones in the movie.

 

I'm also curious as to if a ram jet bullet (non curving) could have a place in the military or in sporting. Perhaps long range sniping or reduced recoil?

 

bullets spin as they travel.

[iNow]

bullets spin as they travel.

 

But the spinning to which you refer, foodchain, is intended to make them more stable and travel in a straighter line (sort of like why they put feathers on the back of arrows). The OP is asking specifically about curving a bullet like a baseball coming from a pitcher on a mound.

[foodchain]

But the spinning to which you refer, foodchain, is intended to make them more stable and travel in a straighter line (sort of like why they put feathers on the back of arrows). The OP is asking specifically about curving a bullet like a baseball coming from a pitcher on a mound.

 

The spin on the round is imparted on it via the weapons rifling in order to give that round more stability and accuracy in terms of its trajectory. To make a round that has this spin curve, you would have to take that spin into account, unless the weapon was smoothbore. Then you would probably end up imparting spin on the round anyways, not to mention other variables like temperature and the air hitting the bullet, which would make the math a bit statistical I think.

[zombieSquirrel]

like a baseball coming from a pitcher on a mound.

 

Basically, but because the engine turns and pushes the bullet in a new direction instead of the magnus effect.

 

To make a round that has this spin curve, you would have to take that spin into account, unless the weapon was smoothbore.

 

Right, a smooth bore gun is what I had in mind.

[Mr Skeptic]

I think the military would avoid bullets that left a trail of smoke pointing out their positions. Making it curve might be a curiosity, but doubtful that it would be of much use. When people take cover, they tend to be very close to the thing they are taking cover against, and there is no way a bullet like you describe could curve that sharply at the right place. Also, it would be much harder to aim. It would definitely be cool though.

 

We do have self-propelled munitions though, such as bazookas, where the recoil would be too extreme for its intended purpose. However, a ramjet could not be used for the initial acceleration, and if you use a gun or cannon you still get recoil.

 

You may find this interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_bleed

[zombieSquirrel]

We do have self-propelled munitions though, such as bazookas, where the recoil would be too extreme for its intended purpose. However, a ramjet could not be used for the initial acceleration, and if you use a gun or cannon you still get recoil.

 

I was thinking it would have reduced recoil because either A) you increase the range of a smaller rifle, so you don't have to use a bigger one, or B) use less powder, and let the jet provide the rest after the bullet leaves the barrel.

 

I agree that a curving bullet like this one would be pretty useless as a weapon, but where would we be if we didn't invent stupid things for the fun of it ?

[John Cuthber]

Not my field, but I thought part of the reason for spinning bullets was to stop them tumbling.

Tumbling would mess up a curved trajectory.

[DJBruce]

We do have self-propelled munitions though, such as bazookas, where the recoil would be too extreme for its intended purpose. However, a ramjet could not be used for the initial acceleration, and if you use a gun or cannon you still get recoil.

 

You are completely right that the jet would not be capable of successfully fire the "bullet" in a way to make it a viable weapon. There was a gun built called the gyrojet that used small rockets to propel the bullet and had the rockets set in such a way that the bullet would spin stabilizing it, so the idea of altering the arrangement of the rockets to alter the trajectory seems to be viable. However, the gyrojet was ineffective a short distances because of the time it required for the rockets to take the bullets up to speed.

[Mokele]

Why would you *want* to curve a bullet, anyway? We've spent a lot of time inventing things like rifling and and high muzzle velocities to make the bullet's path *straighter*, thus more accurate and predictable. A mechanism to make a bullet curve on its path sounds like something from the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.

[foodchain]

I was thinking it would have reduced recoil because either A) you increase the range of a smaller rifle, so you don't have to use a bigger one, or B) use less powder, and let the jet provide the rest after the bullet leaves the barrel.

 

I agree that a curving bullet like this one would be pretty useless as a weapon, but where would we be if we didn't invent stupid things for the fun of it ?

 

If it were a smoothbore weapon, I would think the projectile could not be a bullet, more or less I would think it would have to also be finned and fired at a rather high velocity. When the burst came about that would alter its angle I wonder how much energy that would eat off of the bullet unless following the burst another rocket in the round went off.

 

I am not sure but against a flat surface its either 45 or 90 degrees that is close to what angle the projectile will take on after impact barring the surface material and so on of course, but in that its loses some energy, so I would just think it would lose energy having its trajectory changed in such a manner. Plus with smoothbore again the velocity initially or at some point would have to be rather high along with something to stabilize its trajectory, as the reason rifling exists is to make it accurate at distances.

 

To defeat cover like corners or defelade the army tried to chip small explosive rounds that would detonate at a certain distance detrmined by a laser. I do not think this weapon actually made it though but something like that could possibly work in place of curving bullets.

 

If you had a corner you could fire past it at an angle that would put the round behind it when it went off, if not directly at the corner but parallel to whats on the other side.

[zombieSquirrel]

Just to clarify, the curving bullet is just a curiosity, not an idea for the military. Also, the range enhanced sniper rifle idea is independent of the curving bullet idea, so the sniper rifle bullet wouldn't curve.

 

Not my field, but I thought part of the reason for spinning bullets was to stop them tumbling.

Tumbling would mess up a curved trajectory.

 

I hadn't thought about that, but maybe it could be designed more like a rocket, which are designed to not tumble, despite it lacking a stabilizing spin.

[Edtharan]

What about a "Smart" bullet?

 

This would be a bullet with a chip in it that could calculate it's spin rate and actively adjust itself (micro rockets, adjustable steering vanes, etc). This would preserve the gyroscopic effects of the spinning bullet, but the chip inside could direct the bullet as needed.

 

It might not provide a lot of manoeuvrability to the bullet, but it might allow it to home in on a target (and so be more accurate).