perpetual help?

[greg1917]

Perpetual motion in the sense Ithaxa is talking about is impossible - inventors having been dreaming up perpetual engines for huddnreds of years, ranging from simple contraptions using the falling motion of balls to massive engines which pump water to high tanks and use it to power turnines.

 

Perpetual motion in the sense of say, electrons flowing through a superconducting loop is (off the top of my head) the closest thing to perpetual motion in nature.

[jordan]

magnetic bearings are best (it literaly floats) and then of course that put into a vacuum will reduce energy loss even further

 

What exactly would cause this system to lose energy?

[aommaster]

all sorts of things. Typical energy is wasted as heat, because of air resistance and friction, sound basically. I'm not sure what does YT mean about magnetic bearings. I know about bearnigs, but magnetic ones ?

[Sayonara]

Magnetic bearings wouldn't change much even if you could work them into the design some how - the same problem of energy conservation would occur.

[YT2095]

and no magnet is "Perfect" it will still have areas or greater of less flux density, and so it too would have a drag effect, albeit tiny, but non the less present.

any wobble caused by the road users above would be passed onto the housing and in turn to the flywheel. granted it`s a pretty good system, but it`s not Perfect and certainly a long way off from perpetual motion

[jordan]

all sorts of things. Typical energy is wasted as heat, because of air resistance and friction, sound basically. I'm not sure what does YT mean about magnetic bearings. I know about bearnigs, but magnetic ones ?

 

We are discussing a system of magnets in a vacuum so air resistance, friction and sound aren't problems.

 

 

Magnetic bearings wouldn't change much even if you could work them into the design some how - the same problem of energy conservation would occur.

 

Where would they lose energy?

 

 

and no magnet is "Perfect" it will still have areas or greater of less flux density' date=' and so it too would have a drag effect, albeit tiny, but non the less present.

any wobble caused by the road users above would be passed onto the housing and in turn to the flywheel. granted it`s a pretty good system, but it`s not Perfect and certainly a long way off from perpetual motion [/quote']

 

I don't understand exactly what flux densities are and how they effect the perpetuality (yes, I made this word up) of the system.

[YT2095]

ok, we`ll assume the magnet is made from a peice of metal, that metal will have minor imperfections in it, affecting the strength of the magnetic feild (flux density) around those imperfections.

[Sayonara]

We are discussing a system of magnets in a vacuum so air resistance, friction and sound aren't problems.

Not true. There will be plenty of vibrations - the fact that they aren't transmitted as sound means diddly squat.

 

Where would they lose energy?

It's not so much a matter of losing energy; it's the fact that the energy of the system is either conserved (i.e., nothing can be extracted without ruining the mechanism), or declines (which is worse).

 

The processes behind this have already been described.

[aommaster]

In my opinion, i think if you want to be able to get energy out of the perpetual motion, energy would need to go against the law of conservation. This is because, it is impossible to keep the machine running AND take energy out of it

[YT2095]

indeed!, it would have to operating above unity, and making or sustaining anything that operates AT Unity is as yet not feasible either

[greg1917]

Im still waiting for an explanation how anything can be >100% efficient

[YT2095]

you and me both dude! be certain I`ll be constructing one and telling the Electric company where to go! in no time flat! ))

 

[edit] in actual fact, I`de be just as happy if anyone can just tell me a FREE and Viable source of energy, forget this above unity stuff! )

[blike]

If his system did indeed work, and it actually ran forever, then he would have to be gaining energy to overcome the energy lost by friction, etc. Thus, infinite energy Unfortunately, it won't work.

 

Probably the closest thing to perpetual motion we've ever designed is gravity probe B, whose gyroscope will only lose 1% of it's starting speed over a period of 1000 years.

[YT2095]

0.001% loss P/A isn`t bad at all!!!

[aommaster]

yeah! Quite efficient!

[swansont]

0.001% loss P/A isn`t bad at all!!!

 

It's not 0.001% P/A, it's ~0.00002% P/A. It's power, not speed, that you want (v²), so it has ~98% of the energy left, and assuming the process is constant the energy loss is exponential (i.e. you compound it)

[YT2095]

agreed, my bad !

 

it`s still damn good tho`

[Phi for All]

I remember seeing Joeseph Newman years ago as Johnny Carson's guest on the Tonight show. He explained how he had discovered perpetual motion by combining a gyroscope with an electromagnet. He claimed it produced an EM field so strong it could be used to power a motor that could generate more electricity than it used to keep itself going.

 

His unit was small and could generate power enough for individual homes and run everything on DC so light bulbs and appliances would last forever. His system was supposedly affordable and safe.

 

I was so disappointed when he turned out to be a fraud.