bbrubaker Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I agree with what several others have said, being: sex is pleasurable in order to encourage animals to seek out sex and thus successfully reproduce, and because sex is pleasurable some animals began to seek it out even outside of situations where reproduction is actually possible. I would like to add that sexual behavior can actually serve an adaptive function outside of reproduction, and bonobos, as someone else also mentioned, are a good example of that. They have elaborate sexual behavior - all possible combinations of sexes, all the forms of sexual behavior that are practiced by humans. Even infants and juveniles with each other, and adults with infants and juveniles. Each bout only lasts about 5 - 10 seconds, so for them it's more like a handshake or a hug. They use it to cement their social bonds with each other, to reconcile after a fight, to comfort another if they're upset, to form alliances with each other. Being able to do these things has adaptive value - so it's not simply for pleasure and pleasure alone, but the fact that it's pleasurable allows them to use it for adaptive functions outside of reproduction. ^^ Why species haven't completely short circuited the reproductive process with masturbation. Or maybe some have and those lines 'spanked the money' right into extinction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 i agree with KLB, but i'd take it even further, if sex wasnt chemically pleasurable, the stupid little critters in particular wouldnt be "trained" to reproduce, but take lions for example, i heard it takes about 16-24 hrs to mate, they simply wouldnt do it if there wasnt pleasure involved. Awfully quick critters them Lions Seriously, who would have sex if it wasn't fun? The risks involved with sex, fluid exchange, disease, embarrassment if you take your clothes off, submission, domination, no wait are we talking about animals? Sex has to have some powerful biological impetus to make it happen, in higher animals "fun" is probably high on the list of reasons why they have sex. The more you can think about it the more fun it has to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 ^^Why species haven't completely short circuited the reproductive process with masturbation. Or maybe some have and those lines 'spanked the money' right into extinction? Isn't this a bit like asking why we still have baseball, despite the invention of batting cages? Or, why we still play golf even though we go to the driving range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I suspect we may be getting a rather distorted view of sex in this thread, since I am fairly sure most of our members are not very typical sexually (nerds, geeks, frustrated teenagers and middle aged men). I think most people don't have sex for fun, and I don't think they actually have fun while having sex. They have sex because of social pressure - they are expected to have sex or be labelled a weirdo loser, so they pursue sex as part of being normal and fitting in. Then they rationalise this to themselves by convincing themselves that sex is really great, when in fact if they are honest, they find it disappointing and unfulfilling. They tell their friends how great their sex is because they think it makes them cool and liked, and eventually they believe their own lies. It would be nice if we could all just be honest and admit that sex, while nice now and again, is ultimately not all that society tries to persuade us it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I think most people don't have sex for fun, and I don't think they actually have fun while having sex. They have sex because of social pressure - they are expected to have sex or be labelled a weirdo loser, so they pursue sex as part of being normal and fitting in. o.O You might be doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 o.O You might be doing it wrong. You prove my point. You are conforming to societal pressure by pretending you like sex, so you can appear cool, and implying that those who don't are uncool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You prove my point. You are conforming to societal pressure by pretending you like sex, so you can appear cool, and implying that those who don't are uncool. You might have a distorted view of sex. It's easy not to like it when it involves vagina dentata: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You prove my point. You are conforming to societal pressure by pretending you like sex, so you can appear cool, and implying that those who don't are uncool. I hope you are being cynical here, I honestly cannot think of anything I'd rather do than sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I hope you are being cynical here, I honestly cannot think of anything I'd rather do than sex. I am being perfectly serious. You just think it is fun because you have been brainwashed to believe it. But if you really think back to any encounter you may have had, can you honestly say it was as much fun as everyone pretends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Astronaut Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) I suspect we may be getting a rather distorted view of sex in this thread, since I am fairly sure most of our members are not very typical sexually (nerds, geeks, frustrated teenagers and middle aged men). It's quite possible that some just don't feel the pleasure or thrills of sex. If so, I'm very interested to read studies on the mechanisms of why they don't. Could it have uses to know why? Right off the bat I could think of future extreme-dogmatic parents genetically altering their kids for a life of sexual disinterest. No *foul* thoughts to steer kids astray. But you seem to not be looking at the entire picture. If sex wasn't both a pleasure and a thrill, all sexual impulses would be driven by something other than a need for sexual release. frustrated teenagers That says it all. I think most people don't have sex for fun, and I don't think they actually have fun while having sex. They have sex because of social pressure People don't spend all day and night fantasizing about cigarettes (some might). But a huge number do fantasize about sex, they rub one off in private all the time, and don't really broadcast the story afterwards. They hide porn and sneak nudie mags into the bathroom. You don't expect it's all a big, long (pun) rehearsal for pretending they do like sex when around friends, do you? A daily to yearly line-up of personal research for the sake of knowing how to describe certain particulars to others? (with detailed notes and highlights) Maybe we can look at it this way: a lot of us don't understand how anyone would find pleasure in the many techniques of self-inflicted pain, but I know of several people who rush to it for stress relief and enjoyment. - they are expected to have sex or be labelled a weirdo loser Actually, no. Think of a person who's a slut or their computer's loaded with porn. They don't get many high fives and congrats I'm pretty sure. Edited October 9, 2009 by Baby Astronaut mistakenly quoted my own sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I am being perfectly serious. You just think it is fun because you have been brainwashed to believe it. But if you really think back to any encounter you may have had, can you honestly say it was as much fun as everyone pretends? You only think that because you've been brainwashed to believe it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Yes... It's all social brainwashing. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with a reduction in cortisol levels and the increase in both dopamine and serotonin levels in the brain post-coitus as the literature all indicates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 People don't spend all day and night fantasizing about cigarettes (some might). But a huge number do fantasize about sex, they rub one off in private all the time, and don't really broadcast the story afterwards. They hide porn and sneak nudie mags into the bathroom. You don't expect it's all a big, long (pun) rehearsal for pretending they do like sex when around friends, do you? That is not sex though. It is a completely different thing. That is the anticipation of something that they think they will like. Just as if you might crave some chocolate, and get pleasure about thinking about having some chocolate when you get home. I am also not so sure it is a 'huge number'. Yes... It's all social brainwashing. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with a reduction in cortisol levels and the increase in both dopamine and serotonin levels in the brain post-coitus as the literature all indicates. If that is all it is, why not just give yourself some drugs? I am not saying sex isn't nice sometimes, and I am sure there are some people out there for whom sex is always great. I am just saying that it is over-hyped in our society because of cultural brainwashing, and most of the time people's motivation for having sex is not for 'fun'. You could also argue that the chemical release is enhanced by that same brainwashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I am just saying that it is over-hyped in our society because of cultural brainwashing, and most of the time people's motivation for having sex is not for 'fun'. Well, you are making the mistake of generalizing your own experiences to the population at large. While I have already stipulated that social expectations play a role, I really quite disagree with the point I've quoted above. The ONLY reason I have sex is because it feels good and it's fun. I mean, seriously... My girlfriend and I didn't roll around in the sack last night for two hours because society expected it of us. We did it because we craved it, it was fun, it felt good, and that's a feeling we've all evolved to feel (those creatures who didn't enjoy sex didn't reproduce as successfully as those which did... the enjoyment of sex itself is what was selected for, not the goal of offspring conception). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I am being perfectly serious. You just think it is fun because you have been brainwashed to believe it. But if you really think back to any encounter you may have had, can you honestly say it was as much fun as everyone pretends? I've been having sex regularly for more than 45 years, I love sex, I love everything about sex I love women. If what you say is true for the general public then i must be a point well outside the bell curve. I really love sex , women, and all the games we play together. i can't imagine not loving sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I am being perfectly serious. You just think it is fun because you have been brainwashed to believe it. But if you really think back to any encounter you may have had, can you honestly say it was as much fun as everyone pretends? Casual sex is definitely unfulfilling when used as a substitute for intimacy, although casual sex can also be quite intimate in the right situation. I don't think people are brainwashed into thinking sex is fun - quite the opposite, they're enjoyment is diminished by brainwashing to feel guilty about it. Why do you think it's more likely that we've been brainwashed to think it's fun, when it could also just be you who is brainwashed to think it's not? If anything, far more social institutions have been trying to paint sexuality (for reasons other than reproduction) as a bad thing to feel guilty about - not trying to convince people that it's better than it is. Like I said, sex can be unfulfilling, though it usually depends on what you are after and what a given situation has to offer. I am certain no one is brainwashed into liking it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I think most people don't have sex for fun, and I don't think they actually have fun while having sex. They have sex because of social pressure - they are expected to have sex or be labelled a weirdo loser, so they pursue sex as part of being normal and fitting in. Severian may be onto something. What of the studies that show an increased birth rate 9 months after blackouts (when electricity based forms of entertainment are unavailable)? Doesn't this show that to some extent people choose other stuff over sex? I think studies of affluence and sex/birthrate show a similar result. Though it is quite clear that the majority enjoy sex. As for peer pressure, in some circumstances teenagers feel pressured into having girlfriends and sex, when they might not otherwise. Not necessarily because they don't enjoy it, but they might have moral, personal, or economic reasons they would have otherwise chosen not to. Or they can pretend. Evidence for this: some kids pinch their necks and claim it is a hickey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Astronaut Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 That is not sex though. It is a completely different thing. That is the anticipation of something that they think they will like. Just as if you might crave some chocolate, and get pleasure about thinking about having some chocolate when you get home. The huge difference being: they already know from past experience what the chocolate tastes like. No one's ever going to have massive cravings for the stuff if they never experienced it. As for it being mere anticipation, I'm sure plenty of us as (male) kids occasionally (at very least) carried a textbook in front to hide a boner. Or got one simply by thinking of a curvaceous girl we'd be fond of. Or by glancing at a nudie mag. No one had to pressure us into that explicit feeling of arousal, you can be quite certain. I am also not so sure it is a 'huge number'. Google "erotic" and note the page count. That many webpages dedicated to only a handful of people fantasizing sex? Severian may be onto something. What of the studies that show an increased birth rate 9 months after blackouts (when electricity based forms of entertainment are unavailable)? Doesn't this show that to some extent people choose other stuff over sex? I'm not at all familiar with those studies. Got a link? But if true, I'd bet studies would also reveal an increase of family activities as well (non-sexual of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Severian may be onto something. What of the studies that show an increased birth rate 9 months after blackouts (when electricity based forms of entertainment are unavailable)? Doesn't this show that to some extent people choose other stuff over sex? I think studies of affluence and sex/birthrate show a similar result. Well, where you have blackouts you have low lights, candles, staying warm under blankets... and the complete inability to get the normal daily affairs of life done. People do choose other stuff over sex all the time of course, no single thing could ever be done all the time. As for affluence perhaps people have busier schedules - but I am not familiar with those studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm not at all familiar with those studies. Got a link? Doh, it turns out the baby boom due to blackouts was a myth. http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/blackout.asp. This is what happens when people get their facts from newspapers instead of scientists. Could a mod put strikeout on that bit for me in post 67? The relationship between affluence and lower birthrate is quite clear. There also seems to be one between affluence and sexuality: http://www.sexualfront.com/poverty-sexuality.htm http://www.kff.org/womenshealth/loader.cfm?url=/commonspot/security/getfile.cfm&PageID=14404 (nasty pdf, but see page xiii) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrubaker Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Isn't this a bit like asking why we still have baseball, despite the invention of batting cages? Or, why we still play golf even though we go to the driving range? Exactly, Paralith's post covered this nicely. Edited October 12, 2009 by bbrubaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophrastus Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Evidence for this: some kids pinch their necks and claim it is a hickey. What's a hickey? (tee hee!) *theo apologizes for throwing thread off topic with dirty comments* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrubaker Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Isn't this a bit like asking why we still have baseball, despite the invention of batting cages? Or, why we still play golf even though we go to the driving range? For money? Prestige? I dunno, batting cages are a helluva lot more fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 The point (3 years ago) was your suggestion that we shouldn't still have sex since we can instead masturbate was quite a silly one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Zombie thread... get the shotgun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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