The Shakespearean actor, Sir Patrick Stewart has passed away.

Patrick Stewart, Captain Picard on ‘Star Trek: The Next Generation,’ Dies - The New York Times

Most will better know him as Professor Xavier rather than Leodegrance.
But to me he will always be the best Captain in Starfleet.

"Shaka, when the walls fell"

44 minutes ago, MigL said:

But to me he will always be the best Captain in Starfleet.

Are there others? That is also the series that made me decide to marry my wife. We are both sad now.

1 hour ago, MigL said:

But to me he will always be the best Captain in Starfleet.

For me, it has to be Sejanus from I Claudius (with Brian Blessed, John Hurt, Derek Jacobi, Sian Phillips, Margaret Tyzack, George Baker, Ian Ogilvy. John Rhys-Davies) - best cast for a TV drama series ever.

1 hour ago, MigL said:

The Shakespearean actor, Sir Patrick Stewart has passed away.

Patrick Stewart, Captain Picard on ‘Star Trek: The Next Generation,’ Dies - The New York Times

Most will better know him as Professor Xavier rather than Leodegrance.
But to me he will always be the best Captain in Starfleet.

"Shaka, when the walls fell"

What a pity. He was a damned good Shakespearean actor in his day, too.

9 minutes ago, exchemist said:

What a pity. He was a damned good Shakespearean actor in his day, too.

You could argue that he has been a Shakespearean actor in (almost) any of his roles.

9 minutes ago, CharonY said:

You could argue that he has been a Shakespearean actor in (almost) any of his roles.

Yes, you could say that. He certainly seemed to me to bring some real class to Star Trek, not that I watched a lot of him in that role.

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

Are there others? That is also the series that made me decide to marry my wife. We are both sad now.

Son and I are both fans and will no doubt have cups of Earl Grey, hot, in his honor.

Both Picard and Mr Chekhov this week - Starfleet is losing its finest. Kirk seems to be a tough old bugger, had stage IV cancer a couple years ago and recovered, now 95.

John DeLancie ("Q, " through multiple series, including the season of Strange New Worlds I'm about to start watching) seems to be doing fine, as one would expect from an immortal being. I know he and Stewart were friends and had a famously emotional parting after their final scene wrapped in "Picard."

Sir Patrick Stewart was also Avery Bullock in American Dad!.

For those who may puzzle over the "five candles" meme, you will need to watch the NG episode, Chain of Command. It's one of the best episodes of that series and has a nice hat tip to 1984. (Also features an appearance by @swansont 's avatar)

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

For those who may puzzle over the "five candles" meme

I didn't even realize the writing said '5' candles.
It could be I read too quickly, but, more likely, the subtlety is over my head.

After a shaky start with season 1, the later seasons produced some stand out episodes.
My all-time favorite is the last episode of the 5th season, "the Inner Light".
Flute music has never been the same after ...

4 hours ago, MigL said:

I didn't even realize the writing said '5' candles.
It could be I read too quickly, but, more likely, the subtlety is over my head.

No subtlety. Just a torturer who wants Picard to submit to his version of reality (much like the torturer of Winston Smith in 1984).

9 hours ago, MigL said:

My all-time favorite is the last episode of the 5th season, "the Inner Light".

I second this 100%...I would even go so far as to nominate this for best episode among all the various ST series. I pretty much grew up with Star Trek, and this is the one that has really stuck with me ever since.

6 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

I second this 100%...I would even go so far as to nominate this for best episode among all the various ST series. I pretty much grew up with Star Trek, and this is the one that has really stuck with me ever since.

A favorite here, too. The concept is brilliant - instead of just sending a historical text or recording, the doomed race can encode a person's memories so that another may live those memories. (Also raises interesting ethical issues over the involuntary manner in which the memories of the iron weaver are delivered). Of course we know that if anyone would be open to such an experience it is Picard. After, he is a deeper person, plus flute skills.

I also note the theme is an inversion of the alien probe encounter in STOS, in which Uhura's mind is wiped of all memories. A much lesser episode which skips past many conceptual holes. For me, The Inner Light sort of "repairs" that previous pothole.

23 hours ago, TheVat said:

A favorite here, too. The concept is brilliant - instead of just sending a historical text or recording, the doomed race can encode a person's memories so that another may live those memories. (Also raises interesting ethical issues over the involuntary manner in which the memories of the iron weaver are delivered). Of course we know that if anyone would be open to such an experience it is Picard. After, he is a deeper person, plus flute skills.

The ethics of that are indeed interesting, since he’s subjected to mental anguish (death of good friend, and wife) which could have been even worse, and there’s no consent.

47 minutes ago, swansont said:

The ethics of that are indeed interesting, since he’s subjected to mental anguish ... and there’s no consent.

Teaching an important lesson, one that needs to be remembered, has to involve full emotional investment.
Almost like 'you had to be there'; consent shields from the full impact.

Maybe that is why young people are starting to forget the horrors of WW2, and democracy destroying dictators in general.
Young people are being 'coddled' by safe spaces, prior warning of impactful information, 'both sides' dilution, etc., etc.
You never forget what you learn through a visceral lesson.
And is why, to get back to the OP, that particular ST:TNG episode stuck with me.

Edited Tuesday at 02:29 PM4 days by MigL

2 hours ago, swansont said:

The ethics of that are indeed interesting, since he’s subjected to mental anguish (death of good friend, and wife) which could have been even worse, and there’s no consent.

Yes, and who would consent to living 40 years of another man's life? (Maybe a xenoanthropologist of great dedication?) @MigL remarks on the need for visceral lessons seems relevant - did the doomed aliens feel that it was so important to tell their story in that way, that it was necessary to cross ethical boundaries? Or did they have a different ethical philosophy in that respect? (I really need to rewatch the episode, because I wonder if this was addressed in some way and I've forgotten it, e.g. did Picard somehow agree to it at some subconscious level?)

3 hours ago, MigL said:

Teaching an important lesson, one that needs to be remembered, has to involve full emotional investment.
Almost like 'you had to be there'; consent shields from the full impact.

Maybe that is why young people are starting to forget the horrors of WW2, and democracy destroying dictators in general.
Young people are being 'coddled' by safe spaces, prior warning of impactful information, 'both sides' dilution, etc., etc.
You never forget what you learn through a visceral lesson.

I don't think that visceral exposure is strictly necessary, or in many cases, helpful. Direct exposure can and does traumatize and folks with PTSD will not necessarily be able to draw rational lessons from those experiences. Quite a few break from these experiences (think drug use). In fact, living with them can share trauma in an immensely unhelpful way as the current behaviour will dominate about the reason of said behaviour (think drug use).

Instead, you can learn from folks who went through those experiences and have found a way to cope. I found that talking directly to a person, who shares their experiences to you connects you with them via empathy and respect. When talking to survivors, what I found most impactful wasn't really the horrors (there was little talk about that), but more the day-to-day survival and what they experienced, especially the little good things that happened in the context of their respective, horrible situation. That, in my mind, made it tangible to me. Of course, these intergenerational exchanges will be soon impossible for certain events and that is a big loss. But I don't think that the "coddling" is really what breaks this connection.

There are a lot of challenges, but I found the tech-bro associated (and sometimes rationalist associated) claim that "empathy is the enemy" being one of the biggest one. Instead of building empathy with the victims of, say, the holocaust, it is all about rationalizing it. That, rationalization, however, is also not done in a deep way (e.g. exploring the morality of it) but instead in a lazy superficial way that wipes off everything that is not related to oneself. This kind of self-centeredness that is celebrated by successful folks (and influencers) is the real danger. Even if you traumatize them, I don't think for a minute it will make them better people. They will more likely just be traumatized abusers.

But I agree on the overall loss of lessons argument. I have immense respect for holocaust survivors who have spoken against authoritarianism and for folks like the people in Gaza. Instead of being acting on fear they stood up to their principles, despite also having been in immensely vulnerable positions. That takes immense strength and fortitude and I just don't think that this is a direct lesson that many will be able to learn through trauma. But I do think that more people should listen to them.

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

Yes, and who would consent to living 40 years of another man's life? (Maybe a xenoanthropologist of great dedication?) @MigL remarks on the need for visceral lessons seems relevant - did the doomed aliens feel that it was so important to tell their story in that way, that it was necessary to cross ethical boundaries? Or did they have a different ethical philosophy in that respect? (I really need to rewatch the episode, because I wonder if this was addressed in some way and I've forgotten it, e.g. did Picard somehow agree to it at some subconscious level?)

If one accepts that the technology existed to implant the experience/memory, it’s certainly not a stretch that it could detect a suitable target, but I don’t recall that being explicitly stated.

One nit I have is that it’s not portrayed as a technologically advanced society (they’re all excited about the satellite launch, it’s stated they lack the ability to evacuate the planet in the face of the impending disaster) but they could do this neurological effect. But I’m happy to suspend that disbelief because it’s such a good story

3 hours ago, CharonY said:

I don't think that visceral exposure is strictly necessary, or in many cases, helpful.

I don't know.
The effect of seeing the survivors at Dachau, Buchenwald, Ravensbruk, Bergen-Belsen, or Auschwitz and Treblinka, and then the realization that 6 Million more had already been gassed, leaves a lasting impression of what cruelty human beings are capable of inflicting on each other, for fictitious or notional ideological reasons.
You just cannot tell someone about such things, and not expect them to believe the Moon landings weren't filmed in a warehouse in Area 51 by S Kubrick ...

1 hour ago, MigL said:

I don't know.
The effect of seeing the survivors at Dachau, Buchenwald, Ravensbruk, Bergen-Belsen, or Auschwitz and Treblinka, and then the realization that 6 Million more had already been gassed, leaves a lasting impression of what cruelty human beings are capable of inflicting on each other, for fictitious or notional ideological reasons.
You just cannot tell someone about such things, and not expect them to believe the Moon landings weren't filmed in a warehouse in Area 51 by S Kubrick ...

We might be talking about slightly different things. I assume, that your understanding of the the happenings there are also second-hand (and I apologize if I am misunderstood). I.e. you have found evidence of whatever nature and take those as facts. That, for the younger generation has been broken to some degree, by being bombarded by a deluge of (mis)information that makes even own experiences to appear unreal.

Second, you are right that talking about it it in an abstract sense (e.g., classroom) is likely insufficient. When our class visited the concentration camp in Oświęcim (Auschwitz), the stacks of human hair and teeth were visceral reminder, but the talk with the volunteer survivor was quite a bit of a stark contrast, as he didn't dwell so much on the horrors. This contrast grounded the reality of the horrors in a way that I have trouble articulating, but my bigger takeaway is that needs to be a human connection for that knowledge to survive and that trauma is not the only (or even best way). Secondarily, I will also say that I think that connection and the feel what is real, is being taken away from the next generation and I don't think it is about coddling as such (though it adds to a certain self-centered perspective that feels to be more common now, or at least expressed more openly, especially post-pandemic). But I think that there is something else going that the older generation does not really understand or appreciate with regard to how younger folks think. I will stop here, as I keep polluting threads with these thoughts as I have to deal with that situation or a regular basis.

21 hours ago, swansont said:

One nit I have is that it’s not portrayed as a technologically advanced society (they’re all excited about the satellite launch, it’s stated they lack the ability to evacuate the planet in the face of the impending disaster) but they could do this neurological effect. But I’m happy to suspend that disbelief because it’s such a good story

Having rewatched last night, I agree. It is a funny nit though - they can send a "nucleonic beam" through Enterprise's sophisticated shields and pinpoint Picard's relevant brain areas with neurotech that exceeds 23rd century Federation tech, but their planetary communication system seems to be some kind of telegraph network equivalent to Earth late 19th century. ("We can send a message in the morning.")

My daughter was so moved by the episode, especially the consideration of mortality and how these people could be remembered, she called me right up and, after regaining coherent speech, drilled me at length about bits of family history where we hadn't sufficiently filled her in. It did seem, at some point, that a nucleonic mind ray had gone from my mother to her, skipping my generation, carrying a whole cluster of personality traits and ways of reacting.