“Researchers in the UK studied how European herring gulls (Larus argentatus) in the city reacted to various types of takeout boxes. The gulls were substantially less likely to approach or peck at boxes that had googly eyes attached to them, they found. Though not every bird was deterred, the simple design strategy could help ease human-gull conflict”

https://gizmodo.com/this-ridiculously-simple-trick-might-stop-gulls-from-nabbing-your-lunch-2000742276

You’d think that lunch containers might have evolved this trait on their own, so it must not confer a reproductive advantage…

1 hour ago, swansont said:

You’d think that lunch containers might have evolved this trait on their own, so it must not confer a reproductive advantage…

Hehe. Well something is certainly giving them a reproductive advantage. (says local man who recently assisted in an Earth Week neighborhood cleanup project)

Worth noting re this...

Though not every bird was deterred, the simple design strategy could help ease human-gull conflict, the researchers say.

...that gulls are among those avian species which are pretty smart and have excellent learning skills, like Corvids and Psittaciformes. I give this googly defense system a couple years before all the gulls (and boys) have figured this out.

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Hehe. Well something is certainly giving them a reproductive advantage. (says local man who recently assisted in an Earth Week neighborhood cleanup project)

Worth noting re this...

...that gulls are among those avian species which are pretty smart and have excellent learning skills, like Corvids and Psittaciformes. I give this googly defense system a couple years before all the gulls (and boys) have figured this out.

I would paint baby lambs' eyes on them and while they are distracted arrange for them to be deported to some shithole country with an alligator pool paid for with crypto.

11 hours ago, swansont said:

“Researchers in the UK studied how European herring gulls (Larus argentatus) in the city reacted to various types of takeout boxes. The gulls were substantially less likely to approach or peck at boxes that had googly eyes attached to them, they found. Though not every bird was deterred, the simple design strategy could help ease human-gull conflict”

https://gizmodo.com/this-ridiculously-simple-trick-might-stop-gulls-from-nabbing-your-lunch-2000742276

You’d think that lunch containers might have evolved this trait on their own, so it must not confer a reproductive advantage…

Not just the Herring Gulls (Larus Argentatus), - you also need to watch out for the Lesser Black Back (Larus Fuscus) and the Greater Black Back Gulls (Larus Marinus) - and never mind ‘Googly Eyes’, you’ll also need eyes in the back of your head to see them coming, as these birds have perfected a Stuka like dive-bomb attack from behind over your right shoulder.

A few years ago my wife and I had just disembarked in Ullapool on the West Highland coast of Scotland after a multi-hour voyage from Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis. Feeling hungry we headed for the Fish & Chips delicatessen on the harbour front where they actually have prominent notices up warning customers about these predators.

We walked out of the chippy and sat down on the steps near the ferry terminal to enjoy the scenic view up the sea loch. I raised my piece of battered cod ,and the next moment it was gone, as a Black Back whistled over my shoulder.

25 minutes ago, toucana said:

Not just the Herring Gulls (Larus Argentatus), - you also need to watch out for the Lesser Black Back (Larus Fuscus) and the Greater Black Back Gulls (Larus Marinus) - and never mind ‘Googly Eyes’, you’ll also need eyes in the back of your head to see them coming, as these birds have perfected a Stuka like dive-bomb attack from behind over your right shoulder.

A few years ago my wife and I had just disembarked in Ullapool on the West Highland coast of Scotland after a multi-hour voyage from Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis. Feeling hungry we headed for the Fish & Chips delicatessen on the harbour front where they actually have prominent notices up warning customers about these predators.

We walked out of the chippy and sat down on the steps near the ferry terminal to enjoy the scenic view up the sea loch. I raised my piece of battered cod ,and the next moment it was gone, as a Black Back whistled over my shoulder.

"Fish and Chips delicatessen" 😆

That's Scotland all right.

32 minutes ago, exchemist said:

"Fish and Chips delicatessen" 😆

That's Scotland all right.

DELI-CA-SEA in the local dialect ;-)

Not widely known but there was a rogue element trained at the

https://www.shieldaiglodge.com/explore/falconry

who experimented with training the local seagulls to identify "foreign tourists" from their head gear and for them to disrupt their fish and chip takeaways with unusual flight paths.

They rationalised this as some kind of a boost to the local economy whilst "protecting" the local inhabitants.

There was talk of a prosecution but they claimed they were "doing the lord's work" and that no training was carried out on the Sunday.

Edited April 26Apr 26 by geordief

A similar strategy is used in India IIRC people wear a mask on the back of their head to deter tiger's attacking.

14 hours ago, TheVat said:

Worth noting re this...

  Quote

Though not every bird was deterred, the simple design strategy could help ease human-gull conflict, the researchers say.

...that gulls are among those avian species which are pretty smart and have excellent learning skills, like Corvids and Psittaciformes. I give this googly defense system a couple years before all the gulls (and boys) have figured this out.

Studies suggest they're waiting for our eyes to look away from the food, googly eyes probably give them pause for thought and a missed opportunity.

They'll learn to ignore them, by watching the braver among them enjoy success despite googlie.

3 hours ago, toucana said:

DELI-CA-SEA in the local dialect ;-)

Pronounced fush and chups. (My son went to St Andrew's).

7 hours ago, exchemist said:

Fish and Chips delicatessen" 😆

That's Scotland all right.

Even I got how that's funny. Some Americans have learning skills matching those of seagulls.

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Studies suggest they're waiting for our eyes to look away from the food, googly eyes probably give them pause for thought and a missed opportunity.

They'll learn to ignore them, by watching the braver among them enjoy success despite googlie.

Exactly. They're keen observers. Primates in wildlife parks started.reaching in car windows and snatching people's glasses. Having a shiny bit of plunder is a status thing among many primates, so the others watched and learned to steal as well. This also became common behavior in zoos where caging allowed a reach-through at visitors standing too close. Same around temples in India.

4 hours ago, geordief said:

who experimented with training the local seagulls to identify "foreign tourists" from their head gear and for them to disrupt their fish and chip takeaways with unusual flight paths.

How bizarre. If one is going by headgear and they call it "the Lord's work"... some kind of far right anti-Muslim thing?

15 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Even I got how that's funny. Some Americans have learning skills matching those of seagulls.

Exactly. They're keen observers. Primates in wildlife parks started.reaching in car windows and snatching people's glasses. Having a shiny bit of plunder is a status thing among many primates, so the others watched and learned to steal as well. This also became common behavior in zoos where caging allowed a reach-through at visitors standing too close. Same around temples in India.

How bizarre. If one is going by headgear and they call it "the Lord's work"... some kind of far right anti-Muslim thing?

A lot of “Wee Frees” up there, a sort of Calvinist denomination that includes keen observers of the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. It was only in recent decades that steamer services became allowed to run on Sundays. There is, or was, something called the Lord’s Day Observance Society that kept a beady eye on what commerce was allowed to take place on a Sunday.

There used to a rhyme contrasting the Wee Frees with the established Church of Scotland (which is Presbyterian):

The wee kirk, the free kirk, the kirk without the steeple.

The auld kirk, the cold kirk, the kirk without the people.

Edited April 26Apr 26 by exchemist

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

How bizarre. If one is going by headgear and they call it "the Lord's work"... some kind of far right anti-Muslim thing?

I think the berets were a give away for French tourists but there was confusion as to whether the cameras indicated Japanese or Americans.

They can't have got it right all the time and they were difficult to train because the scraps on the pier(prawn casings esp) meant they had low concentration levels.

Not many Muslims around at that time ..... but maybe there were chapters based in Glasgow or the larger towns that included them in the training process.

5 hours ago, exchemist said:

A lot of “Wee Frees” up there, a sort of Calvinist denomination that includes keen observers of the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. It was only in recent decades that steamer services became allowed to run on Sundays. There is, or was, something called the Lord’s Day Observance Society that kept a beady eye on what commerce was allowed to take place on a Sunday.

My paternal grandfather was the eighth son of a crofting family on Lewis - all mother-tongue Gaelic speakers and all ‘Wee Frees’.  I heard quite a few stories about these hyper-devout Calvinists, but didn’t experience the culture first hand until I visited the Hebridean islands for the first time in the late 90s.

I was at the Hebridean Folk Festival in Stornoway in 1999, and it was absolutely true, you couldn’t get off the island until the ferries started running again on the Monday. They also used to chain up the childrens' swings in the playground on a Sabbath, to make sure that absolutely no one had any fun on the Lords day.

4 minutes ago, toucana said:

My paternal grandfather was the eighth son of a crofting family on Lewis - all mother-tongue Gaelic speakers and all ‘Wee Frees’.  I heard quite a few stories about these hyper-devout Calvinists, but didn’t experience the culture first hand until I visited the Hebridean islands for the first time in the late 90s.

I was at the Hebridean Folk Festival in Stornoway in 1999, and it was absolutely true, you couldn’t get off the island until the ferries started running again on the Monday. They also used to chain up the childrens' swings in the playground on a Sabbath, to make sure that absolutely no one had any fun on the Lords day.

Ha. My paternal grandfather lived on the Firth of Clyde and was both a Methodist minister and prof of church history at Glasgow. He knew the ins and outs of all these denominations - and tended to poke a bit of gentle fun at the Wee Frees. (He was probably part of the reason why my father rebelled and converted to Catholicism.)

On 4/25/2026 at 9:29 PM, swansont said:

“Researchers in the UK studied how European herring gulls (Larus argentatus) in the city reacted to various types of takeout boxes. The gulls were substantially less likely to approach or peck at boxes that had googly eyes attached to them, they found. Though not every bird was deterred, the simple design strategy could help ease human-gull conflict”

https://gizmodo.com/this-ridiculously-simple-trick-might-stop-gulls-from-nabbing-your-lunch-2000742276

You’d think that lunch containers might have evolved this trait on their own, so it must not confer a reproductive advantage…

Certain caterpillars, moths and butterflies have evolved to have imitation eyes so perhaps having such does confer a reproductive advantage ?

The Polyphemus moth is a common example. Has simulated owl eyes and owl facial pattern on its large wings to deter predators. Maybe started as a vaguely eye-like pattern on wings due to a mutation, which gave a slight selective advantage, which then favored small variations over time leading to something more definitely owl-like.

Don't know if they swing on Sunday or not.

7 hours ago, OldTony said:

Certain caterpillars, moths and butterflies have evolved to have imitation eyes so perhaps having such does confer a reproductive advantage ?

Absolutely. That’s part of the joke here.

Ah well, I fell for that one - or perhaps a touch of "Two nations divided by a common language ".

The saddest part of all this is that gulls are now a 'protected species in the UK and you are no longer allowed to defend your lunch by force on pain of prosecution.

Apparantly there are not enough of the b****y things.

49 minutes ago, studiot said:

The saddest part of all this is that gulls are now a 'protected species in the UK and you are no longer allowed to defend your lunch by force on pain of prosecution.

Apparantly there are not enough of the b****y things.

There seems to be a distinction made between herring gulls and lesser black backed gulls:

Where such measures are proving ineffective, local authorities and landowners can take immediate action if these gulls pose a risk to public health or safety under the terms of a general licence, (a licence which is already in place provided certain conditions are met). This allows them to remove the nests and eggs of lesser black-backed gulls and herring gulls without having to spend time applying for a specific, individual licence. It also allows lethal control of lesser black-backed gulls in certain circumstances. Herring gulls, however, have been red-listed as a bird of conservation concern so their lethal control is only permitted by obtaining an individual licence from Natural England.

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/advice-on-how-to-deal-with-problem-seagulls

It is not very easy to tell the difference though. And they can be a menace, as we found out when we lived in Scheveningen in the Netherlands (and my son found to a lesser extent in St Andrew's).

(But you are allowed to kill foxes, I've discovered, so long as humane methods are used, e.g. not poison.)

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

There seems to be a distinction made between herring gulls and lesser black backed gulls:

Where such measures are proving ineffective, local authorities and landowners can take immediate action if these gulls pose a risk to public health or safety under the terms of a general licence, (a licence which is already in place provided certain conditions are met). This allows them to remove the nests and eggs of lesser black-backed gulls and herring gulls without having to spend time applying for a specific, individual licence. It also allows lethal control of lesser black-backed gulls in certain circumstances. Herring gulls, however, have been red-listed as a bird of conservation concern so their lethal control is only permitted by obtaining an individual licence from Natural England.

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/advice-on-how-to-deal-with-problem-seagulls

It is not very easy to tell the difference though. And they can be a menace, as we found out when we lived in Scheveningen in the Netherlands (and my son found to a lesser extent in St Andrew's).

(But you are allowed to kill foxes, I've discovered, so long as humane methods are used, e.g. not poison.)

You never know when you're allowed to use a pie chart...

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

There seems to be a distinction made between herring gulls and lesser black backed gulls:

Curious, since for many years the two taxa were considered end members of a classic ring species. This invites some question as to where exactly on the spectrum one taxon ends and another begins. I think Dawkins covered it in the Ancestor's Tale.

However a 2004 paper, The Herring Gull Complex is not a Ring Species, threw a bit of a spanner in the works with an argument that divergence was more due to occasional long distance allopatric speciation. I did like the old picture. The jury is still out perhaps.

Quite enjoyed the occasional trip to Bempton Cliffs to photograph the two where they overlapped. (I have no time for hostility to either; hardly their fault humanity is so messy that it needs a clean up crew).

15 minutes ago, sethoflagos said:

Curious, since for many years the two taxa were considered end members of a classic ring species. This invites some question as to where exactly on the spectrum one taxon ends and another begins. I think Dawkins covered it in the Ancestor's Tale.

However a 2004 paper, The Herring Gull Complex is not a Ring Species, threw a bit of a spanner in the works with an argument that divergence was more due to occasional long distance allopatric speciation. I did like the old picture. The jury is still out perhaps.

Quite enjoyed the occasional trip to Bempton Cliffs to photograph the two where they overlapped. (I have no time for hostility to either; hardly their fault humanity is so messy that it needs a clean up crew).

Bit much though when they pinch your fush n chups out of your hand.

32 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Bit much though when they pinch your fush n chups out of your hand.

Similar to what I thought walking around the safari game park munching on a rack of ribs 🤕

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

Similar to what I thought walking around the safari game park munching on a rack of ribs 🤕

Hmm, Scheveningen, or St. Andrew's or Helensburgh for that matter, are hardly "safari parks", though.