When an entity under consideration possesses multiple, perhaps many, characteristics we need to consider the situation that arises for entities that only possess some of those characteristics.

Just to be clear, I am using the word characteristic in its common or garden meaning of quality or property or similar, not in the specialised mathematical meaning to to with the wave equation.
Equally I am using duality in a broader sense than just in the wave/particle apparent dichotomy, as it applies to all sciences, not just light.

I am of the opinion that the so called wave/particle duality issue has been 'blown up (inflated) out of all proportion', being seized upon by the media as some sort of inscrutable mystic woo.

In other science we comfortably accept duality and say 'it depends upon the circumstances' and move on to consider those circumstance.

Here are a few examples.

Chemistry : Is aluminium acid or alkali ?

Biology : Is a vurus dead or alive ?

Materials Science : Is concrete a stron or weak material ?

Electrical Science : Is a hole a particle or a wave ?

Biological Science : Is a fungus a plant or an animal ?

Visual Science : Optical Illusions : Is the picture the external corner of a cube or the internal corner of a box ?

Chemistry : Is compound X covalent or ionic ?

My question for discussion is; "Are we making too much fuss about light duality so that the it has achieved mystic status that brings so many to misunderstanding ?"

1 hour ago, studiot said:

When an entity under consideration possesses multiple, perhaps many, characteristics we need to consider the situation that arises for entities that only possess some of those characteristics.

Just to be clear, I am using the word characteristic in its common or garden meaning of quality or property or similar, not in the specialised mathematical meaning to to with the wave equation.
Equally I am using duality in a broader sense than just in the wave/particle apparent dichotomy, as it applies to all sciences, not just light.

I am of the opinion that the so called wave/particle duality issue has been 'blown up (inflated) out of all proportion', being seized upon by the media as some sort of inscrutable mystic woo.

In other science we comfortably accept duality and say 'it depends upon the circumstances' and move on to consider those circumstance.

Here are a few examples.

Chemistry : Is aluminium acid or alkali ?

Biology : Is a vurus dead or alive ?

Materials Science : Is concrete a stron or weak material ?

Electrical Science : Is a hole a particle or a wave ?

Biological Science : Is a fungus a plant or an animal ?

Visual Science : Optical Illusions : Is the picture the external corner of a cube or the internal corner of a box ?

Chemistry : Is compound X covalent or ionic ?

My question for discussion is; "Are we making too much fuss about light duality so that the it has achieved mystic status that brings so many to misunderstanding ?"

I don’t think we are. But the media? Yes, possibly, at least in the UK where the journos mostly seem to be arts graduates.

My impression from reading le Figaro on hols is that French media are a lot more science-literate. They seem to write on science assuming readers have at least A level understanding and don’t talk down to them. It may be that British media are an outlier. Britain seems still not to have quite shaken off the old notion that science is all a bit working class: a discipline in which one has to do things with one’s hands, my dear.

I do think many popularisers of science tend to stress knowledge: that we now know the way things really are, rather dogmatically. Not many of them speak of models and the use of alternative models to fit the situation at hand.

We have a tendency to want things to fit into convenient categories, so such duality will arise when that doesn’t happen. Such categorization might work most of the time but nature is messy and doesn’t always conform to these simple characterizations.

So the exceptions are interesting, but we shouldn’t make a fuss over the existence of them

2 hours ago, swansont said:

We have a tendency to want things to fit into convenient categories, so such duality will arise when that doesn’t happen. Such categorization might work most of the time but nature is messy and doesn’t always conform to these simple characterizations.

So the exceptions are interesting, but we shouldn’t make a fuss over the existence of them

But we should, at least, take them into consideration since we don't know everything...

It's normally slowm on a Monday so thanks to those who have already responded.

I seems we are all agreed that wav/particle duality is no biggie yet I still see most textbooks and articles making a big song and dance about it.

Contrast with a chemistry text that says Aluminium can act as either an acid or an alkali, depending upon the chemical environment. We call this behaviour amphoteric.

Followed by some example reactions

Edited August 18, 2025Aug 18 by studiot

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

In other science we comfortably accept duality and say 'it depends upon the circumstances' and move on to consider those circumstance.

Here are a few examples.

Chemistry : Is aluminium acid or alkali ?

Biology : Is a vurus dead or alive ?

Electrical Science : Is a hole a particle or a wave ?

Biological Science : Is a fungus a plant or an animal ?

Chemistry : Is compound X covalent or ionic ?

to me , the answer to such questions is both wide / broad and in fact simple.

and even can be increased by some sort of thougths or perspective.

-Also, in some languages some specific terms or usages are available for such cases.

Edited March 7Mar 7 by ahmet

2 hours ago, ahmet said:

to me , the answer to such questions is both wide / broad and in fact simple.

and even can be increased by some sort of thougths or perspective.

-Also, in some languages some specific terms or usages are available for such cases.

Thank you for your interest.

Would you explain further, perhaps with some examples ?

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

Thank you for your interest.

Would you explain further, perhaps with some examples ?

yes, but do not forget the case that it could switch to broad and broader and reach to very wide subtopics.

the case you write here based on perspective and extensional opinions can be wider.

(my personal opinion is that there should not be "duality" Because even sensitive minimal existences, in fact, will show that there would be no duality However, not at everycase and every events sensitivities are measurable currently. In spite of this, I propose that there should be no "duality" )

For instance,(I have no offical expertise at this field but..) as far as I know, Biologists (biophysicists) state that cell membran potential is -82mV. This is a treshold. If a stimulus makes an effect over this point, than it switches to be action potential. But do not explain what happens (it might be very rare case) at treshold points.

I tend to summarize all the cases alike with this case:

an existence starts with

prior to beginning,continues with treshold and passes to happening.

Edited March 7Mar 7 by ahmet

49 minutes ago, ahmet said:

yes, but do not forget the case that it could switch to broad and broader and reach to very wide subtopics.

the case you write here based on perspective and extensional opinions can be wider.

(my personal opinion is that there should not be "duality" Because even sensitive minimal existences, in fact, will show that there would be no duality However, not at everycase and every events sensitivities are measurable currently. In spite of this, I propose that there should be no "duality" )

For instance,(I have no offical expertise at this field but..) as far as I know, Biologists (biophysicists) state that cell membran potential is -82mV. This is a treshold. If a stimulus makes an effect over this point, than it switches to be action potential. But do not explain what happens (it might be very rare case) at treshold points.

I tend to summarize all the cases alike with this case:

an existence starts with

prior to beginning,continues with treshold and passes to happening.

Thank you for your reply, but I really don't see what it has to do with duality.

Membrane potentials occur in Biology yes, but no dualism is involved.

Two state ( on or off) systems occur widely, but this is entirely different from dualism.

A good example would be binary logic, the two states are 1 and zero.

In electronics a common implementation would be +5volts representating 1 and 0volts representing zero.

This is called positive logic.

But it is possible to do it the other way round, with the 5 volts representing zero and 0volts representing 1

This is called negative logic.

Such a situation is indeed dualism.

There are many such in Mathematics.

As a matter of interest membrane potentials are really part of Chemisty, not Physics.

A good treatment of their calculation is given in

Physical Chemistry for Biochemists

Price et al

Oxford University Press

Edited March 8Mar 8 by studiot
spelling

15 minutes ago, studiot said:

Thank you for your reply, but I really don't see what it has to do with duality.

I say that based on my personal opinion; there should be NO duality in reality.

this means that;

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

Chemistry : Is aluminium acid or alkali ?

aluminnium would be either acid or alkali. but just one (not dual condition is available in reality)

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

Biology : Is a vurus dead or alive ?

it is alive to me. (Again I do not interest to biology as there are very wide stupid biologists)

but I clearly mean that in reality there is just one case : it can either be alive or dead. But just one. not dual mode is available.

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

Materials Science : Is concrete a stron or weak material ?

concrete is either stron or weak. But just one case is available.

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

Electrical Science : Is a hole a particle or a wave ?

to me it is a wave.

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

Biological Science : Is a fungus a plant or an animal ?

it can either be plant or animal. Also, unlike a stupid biologist, I will tend to say many things under this topic although I do not interest to this issue.

On 8/18/2025 at 12:49 PM, studiot said:

Visual Science : Optical Illusions : Is the picture the external corner of a cube or the internal corner of a box ?

see other expresions please. I think I have made sufficient explanations.

25 minutes ago, studiot said:

Membrane potentials occur in Biology yes, but no dualism is involved.

to you, may I suppose that a hermaphroditism would be a better example to the topic (is it female or male?). if so, then I think you have not understood well what I said. Sorry.

26 minutes ago, studiot said:

Edited March 8Mar 8 by ahmet

7 minutes ago, ahmet said:

I say that based on my personal opinion; there should be NO duality in reality.

this means that;

aluminnium would be either acid or alkali. but just one (not dual condition is available in reality)

it is alive to me. (Again I do not interest to biology as there are very wide stupid biologists)

but I clearly mean that in reality there is just one case : it can either be alive or dead. But just one. not dual mode is available.

concrete is either stron or weak. But just one case is available.

to me it is a wave.

it can either be plant or animal. Also, unlike a stupid biologist, I will tend to say many things under this topic although I do not interest to this issue.

see other expresions please. I think I have made sufficient explanations.

Thank you for your reply and the negative point.

Since I am guessing that English is not your first language I can see why you have failed to understand my opening post and subsequent replies.

Yes I agree that if you are correct that there is no duality (in reality) none of my examples represent duality.

But then you failed to understand that they were all examples for discussion, to stimulate the idea that there may be more than one type of duality.

You also failed to take into account that I said it depends upon circumstance.

So it is true that concrete is very very weak in tension, but very very strong in compression.
So it is weak in some circumstances, but strong in others.
That is why we use reinforced concrete.

You would certainly fail a chemistry exam if you claim that aluminium cannot act as either an alkali or an acid depending upon circumstance (ph in this case)
That is how you can get the substances aluminium sulphate and calcium aluminate.
That is reality, but is it duality ?

I find your statement that a hole (in electronics) is a wave quite interesting. Especially as a hole is the absence of something, because something is missing.
So what is this wave made of ?

No duality in reality ?

Children in school use a pair of compasses to plot or draw a circle as a trajectory of points a fixed distance from a centre.
But in some schools they also construct a circle by 'curve stitching'.
That is they plot those points by stretching threads along tangents to that same circle.
In fact they are laying the groundwork to one day understand dual spaces in mathematics.

8 minutes ago, studiot said:

I find your statement that a hole (in electronics) is a wave quite interesting. Especially as a hole is the absence of something, because something is missing.
So what is this wave made of ?

Eh, it is very simple. Consider, why is a line, in fact a circle in complex analysis?

now,I am also sure that you did NOT understand what I said.

Edited March 8Mar 8 by ahmet

2 minutes ago, ahmet said:

Eh, it is very simple. Consider, why is a line, in fact a circle in complex analysis?

now,I am also sure that you did NOT understand what I said.

Since it is too difficult for idiots like me to understand why a missing electron is a wave of any sort I would be grateful if geniuses like yourself would explain in simple words that I can understand.

Edited March 8Mar 8 by studiot