According to religious books, why god would want us to be happy?

Does he want something from us?

Edited May 10May 10 by raphaelh42

It’s not clear that this is the case. There are examples where it isn’t - Loki, Hades, etc. Indifferent or malevolent gods.

43 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

According to religious books, why god would want us to be happy?

Does he want something from us?

I think this idea may only apply to the Abrahamic religions. The Ancient Greek and Roman gods did not exhibit beneficence, or only some of them, some of the time. Also I’m not sure if it is true of the Hindu pantheon.

The Abrahamic religions cast God in the role of father. As such, God is disposed to care for his children. A father does not demand anything of his child, but he wants him or her to be happy. I think that’s the general idea, at least.

9 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

According to religious books, why god would want us to be happy?

Does he want something from us?

According to religious books, the god tells his people exactly what he wants from them, right down to forms of worship, diet and dress. I haven't read much about any god wishing happiness for his people, other than the promise that, if you do enough of what the god wants, he will eventually grant you the happiness of his choice.

15 hours ago, Peterkin said:

According to religious books, the god tells his people exactly what he wants from them, right down to forms of worship, diet and dress. I haven't read much about any god wishing happiness for his people, other than the promise that, if you do enough of what the god wants, he will eventually grant you the happiness of his choice.

Seems more like the meaning is lost, as no god has ever directly written a word, citation needed; it seems to me that a metaphor needs a relative context more than it needs a god.

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Seems more like the meaning is lost, as no god has ever directly written a word, citation needed; it seems to me that a metaphor needs a relative context more than it needs a god.

I don't follow. What meaning once existed and when was it lost?

Citation? Well, here is one well known to our readership: ttps://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Here's another: https://www.clearquran.com

And this one : https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/The-Bible-with-Rashi.htm

Just for fun: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

no god has ever directly written a word,

Now, how in the world did you come to know that? What about the Moving Finger?

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

a metaphor needs a relative context more than it needs a god.

A metaphor can't exist without context and most metaphors do not involve a god, that much is true, but I fail to see the relevance here. . Religious books do require deities, have gods a-plenty and are quite clear about what those gods demanded at some time. Any changes to the desires of the god of each religion have been recorded in further documents, such as rabbinical commentaries and papal encyclicals.

On 5/10/2025 at 8:07 AM, raphaelh42 said:

According to religious books, why god would want us to be happy?

Does he want something from us?

Specific needed

8 hours ago, Peterkin said:

What about the Moving Finger?

I don't know about a moving finger but there's always the flying fickle finger of fate...

13 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I don't follow. What meaning once existed and when was it lost?

Citation? Well, here is one well known to our readership: ttps://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Here's another: https://www.clearquran.com

And this one : https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/The-Bible-with-Rashi.htm

Just for fun: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

Now, how in the world did you come to know that? What about the Moving Finger?

A metaphor can't exist without context and most metaphors do not involve a god, that much is true, but I fail to see the relevance here. . Religious books do require deities, have gods a-plenty and are quite clear about what those gods demanded at some time. Any changes to the desires of the god of each religion have been recorded in further documents, such as rabbinical commentaries and papal encyclicals.

My point is, any argument from an atheist that uses god, is a logical fallacy.

13 hours ago, Peterkin said:

What about the Moving Finger?

What about it?

12 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Specific needed

Nope.

34 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

My point is, any argument from an atheist that uses god, is a logical fallacy.

Citation needed. If you believe atheists are less capable of reading comprehension than theists, on what evidence do you base that belief?

The OP was a question about the main character in religious books. This one:

On 5/10/2025 at 11:07 AM, raphaelh42 said:

According to religious books, why god would want us to be happy?

Does he want something from us?

39 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

What about it?

[quote]

Omar Khayyam
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
     Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.[/quote]

That can be interpreted as God writing our lives directly onto the world, or the passage of time or as inescapable Fate...

.... but not Rowan and Martin's FFoF award for acting in bad faith.

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Nope.

Bollocks. Gods and religions/mythologies are not identical, and some do not fit into the category. Specifics are absolutely needed.

My point is, any argument from an atheist that uses god, is a logical fallacy.

My experience has been that it’s the religious not understanding atheism (they believe, and can’t understand that it’s possible not to believe) much more often than atheists not understanding religion.

8 minutes ago, swansont said:

Bollocks. Gods and religions/mythologies are not identical, and some do not fit into the category. Specifics are absolutely needed.

Nor is history, but the patterns do match...

16 minutes ago, swansont said:

My experience has been that it’s the religious not understanding atheism (they believe, and can’t understand that it’s possible not to believe) much more often than atheists not understanding religion.

If you're an atheist, you don't believe in god, therefore anything the bible said was not written by, or directly influenced by god.

44 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Citation needed. If you believe atheists are less capable of reading comprehension than theists, on what evidence do you base that belief?

When did I say that?

I'm just pointing out that a good argument doesn't include a mythical being...

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

If you're an atheist, you don't believe in god, therefore anything the bible said was not written by, or directly influenced by god.

“Influenced by” is moving the goalposts. The claim was “no god has ever directly written a word”

Name a religion that claims their holy book was directly written by their deity. This is not an issue of whether an outsider believes it. (not that this requires atheism. I doubt many Christians believe the flying spaghetti monster is real)

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

I'm just pointing out that a good argument doesn't include a mythical being...

Only, there was no argument of any kind. I could have made a case for gun control or the teaching of foreign literature in secondary school, without once referring to any mythical beings.

However the OP question was about a mythical being and I answered it according to what I know of the subject.

15 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Nope.

This is so astronomically helpful

21 hours ago, swansont said:

“Influenced by” is moving the goalposts. The claim was “no god has ever directly written a word”

It wasn't my claim, are you moving the goalposts?

22 hours ago, swansont said:

Name a religion that claims their holy book was directly written by their deity. This is not an issue of whether an outsider believes it. (not that this requires atheism. I doubt many Christians believe the flying spaghetti monster is real)

I'm not a theologian, I have no idea; my point isn't what a deity might look like to <insert ism>.

In the context of this thread, and as an atheist, it's not god that wants us to be happy; it's a human, that thought it was a good idea to be nice to people, even when they're being arseholes. (edit. not a cryptic accusation of anyone)

10 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

This is so astronomically helpful

You're welcome...

Edited May 13May 13 by dimreepr

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

It wasn't my claim, are you moving the goalposts?

It’s the original claim you made in the discussion. Do you really think you can deny you made it?

On 5/11/2025 at 12:26 PM, dimreepr said:

as no god has ever directly written a word

15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

In the context of this thread, and as an atheist, it's not god that wants us to be happy; it's a human, that thought it was a good idea to be nice to people, even when they're being arseholes.

As an atheist with the stated opinion that “any argument from an atheist that uses god, is a logical fallacy.” it would seem that any comment you make here is off-topic, since the topic is about god, and you’re talking about people.

If you can’t or won’t discuss the topic, stay out of the conversation.

21 minutes ago, swansont said:

As an atheist with the stated opinion that “any argument from an atheist that uses god, is a logical fallacy.” it would seem that any comment you make here is off-topic, since the topic is about god, and you’re talking about people.

Fair point.

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

You're welcome...

I cured cancer with your answer. Utter genius you are

On 5/10/2025 at 5:07 PM, raphaelh42 said:

Does he want something from us?

I was called to the board like a first-grader.

Don't pretend someone else against yourself..

If you are evil, then be evil, and if you are good then be good.

If you have the strength to overcome the evil within you, then you can become good..

Being evil is easy, sometimes it keeps you alive, but usually not very pleasant, because hatred eats you up from the inside and destroys you.

Being good can also cost you your life, if evil wins, and kills you.

The superposition between good and evil in quantum physics is not yet a solved puzzle.. ;)

On 5/10/2025 at 5:53 PM, swansont said:

It’s not clear that this is the case. There are examples where it isn’t - Loki, Hades, etc. Indifferent or malevolent gods.

..or the sources were misrepresented by the winners.. ;)

On 5/10/2025 at 5:56 PM, exchemist said:

I think this idea may only apply to the Abrahamic religions. The Ancient Greek and Roman gods did not exhibit beneficence, or only some of them, some of the time. Also I’m not sure if it is true of the Hindu pantheon.

I can easily refute this:

Psychostasis (Greek for weighing the soul) - in ancient Egyptian mythology, a judgment on the deceased, held by weighing his heart against the feather of an ostrich (a symbol of truth) in the presence of the god Osiris and 42 judges. This weighing was done by Anubis or Horus, while the god of wisdom Thot recorded the result. If the heart was lighter, the deceased gained the right to eternal life and happiness.

7 hours ago, Sensei said:

I was called to the board like a first-grader.

Don't pretend someone else against yourself..

If you are evil, then be evil, and if you are good then be good.

If you have the strength to overcome the evil within you, then you can become good..

Being evil is easy, sometimes it keeps you alive, but usually not very pleasant, because hatred eats you up from the inside and destroys you.

Being good can also cost you your life, if evil wins, and kills you.

The superposition between good and evil in quantum physics is not yet a solved puzzle.. ;)

..or the sources were misrepresented by the winners.. ;)

I can easily refute this:

That is judgement rather than beneficence, surely?

On 5/10/2025 at 5:56 PM, exchemist said:

A father does not demand anything of his child, but he wants him or her to be happy.

..it seems to me that the Old Testament is filled with just the opposite examples. Starting with Isaac.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac

Keeping the commandments also hardly counts as what you say..

Being (relatively) happy is the result of everyone doing the right thing and not committing sins, and other wickedness.

In other words, do not do unto another what is not pleasing to you.

Unless you are some kind of sado-maso etc. ;)

(The Jews of >= 3,000 years ago did not foresee that someone could take pleasure in such things)

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

..it seems to me that the Old Testament is filled with just the opposite examples. Starting with Isaac.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac

Keeping the commandments also hardly counts as what you say..

Being (relatively) happy is the result of everyone doing the right thing and not committing sins, and other wickedness.

In other words, do not do unto another what is not pleasing to you.

Unless you are some kind of sado-maso etc. ;)

(The Jews of >= 3,000 years ago did not foresee that someone could take pleasure in such things)

Yes, I agree the Jewish OT God seems a lot less loving than the Christian one of the NT. The Jewish God is more of a military protector of the tribes of Israel, mostly.

Edited May 14May 14 by exchemist

7 hours ago, Sensei said:

..it seems to me that the Old Testament is filled with just the opposite examples. Starting with Isaac.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac

Keeping the commandments also hardly counts as what you say..

Being (relatively) happy is the result of everyone doing the right thing and not committing sins, and other wickedness.

In other words, do not do unto another what is not pleasing to you.

Unless you are some kind of sado-maso etc. ;)

(The Jews of >= 3,000 years ago did not foresee that someone could take pleasure in such things)

Seems to me, it's more an example of meaning being taken out of context, bc we can't comprehend/understand the culture from which the god/wisdom is born.

Edited May 14May 14 by dimreepr