I overall understand that mammography as a whole tends to be a very intimate subject, and that the majority of people with breast cancer or female.

But why are so many men avoiding it completely, or are discouraged from entering the specific area of that field?

Urology is primarily male dominated, but women are encouraged to enter the field (Which I support 100%)

Why not encourage men to enter radiology considering there is a shortage?

46 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

why are so many men avoiding it completely

Citation needed. Unwilling to accept your premise just bc you say so.

1 minute ago, iNow said:

Citation needed. Unwilling to accept your premise just bc you say so.

An example is an article done by the "Radiology Business" which is linked here: https://radiologybusiness.com/topics/medical-practice-management/men-less-likely-specialize-mammography-calling-it-female-only

Perhaps when you get the chance, answer my question if possible.

3 minutes ago, iNow said:

. Unwilling to accept your premise just bc you say so.

Ok? Why the escalation?

8 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I overall understand that mammography as a whole tends to be a very intimate subject, and that the majority of people with breast cancer or female.

But why are so many men avoiding it completely, or are discouraged from entering the specific area of that field?

Urology is primarily male dominated, but women are encouraged to enter the field (Which I support 100%)

Why not encourage men to enter radiology considering there is a shortage?

Just a minute. Are you asking about radiology or about mammography?

Mammography is but one particular application of radiography.

Radiography is not radiology. Radiography is the taking of images, done by a technician. Radiology is the interpretation of those images to diagnose medical conditions and guide treatment. This is done by a qualified specialist doctor.

What is it you want to talk about?

Edited May 1May 1 by exchemist

Just now, exchemist said:

Just a minute. Are you asking about radiology or about mammography?

Mammography is but one particular application of radiography.

Radiography is not radiology. Radiography is the taking of images, done by a technician. Radiology is the interpretation of those images to diagnose medical conditions and guide treatment. This is done by a qualified specialist doctor.

What is it you want to talk about?

Exactly +1

There was a recent health news BBC article about this subject.

BBC News

Male workers should be able to carry out mammograms, expe...

The Society of Radiographers says allowing men to do mammograms would reduce staff shortages.

5 hours ago, exchemist said:

Just a minute. Are you asking about radiology or about mammography?

Mammography is but one particular application of radiography.

Radiography is not radiology. Radiography is the taking of images, done by a technician. Radiology is the interpretation of those images to diagnose medical conditions and guide treatment. This is done by a qualified specialist doctor.

I want to ask about Mammography

3 hours ago, studiot said:

Exactly +1

There was a recent health news BBC article about this subject.

BBC News

Male workers should be able to carry out mammograms, expe...

The Society of Radiographers says allowing men to do mammograms would reduce staff shortages.

Thanks for the article

1 hour ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I want to ask about Mammography

Thanks for the article

OK. The BBC article explores the issue. In the UK, only female radiographers can carry out mammography on women patients, and this is partly to maximise take-up of the free breast cancer screening service offered by the NHS. Obviously the more of the population take part in screening, the better, both for citizens and for health costs to the nation.

It looks as though in the UK about 70% of radiographers are female (whereas only 25% of radiologists are women). There is plenty of work for male radiographers to do. I have never heard of men avoiding radiography as a profession, as you suggest. But it is the case that many of the “caring” professions are more female than male, nursing being the most obvious example. That seems to be to do with human instincts, one of the many differences between the sexes.

Edited May 1May 1 by exchemist

Just now, exchemist said:

In the UK, only female radiographers can carry out mammography on women patients

I understand its a very sensitive/intimate process but why is that? Female Urologists from what I know are trained with both the male and female urinary tracts, why can only female radiographers can carry out mammography on women patients?

1 minute ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand its a very sensitive/intimate process but why is that? Female Urologists from what I know are trained with both the male and female urinary tracts, why can only female radiographers can carry out mammography on women patients?

Because it is what women prefer. They, by and large, don’t fancy having their tits groped by some guy. And we do need as many women as possible to come forward for screening.

Men, on the other hand, tend not to be quite so shy about exposing their bodies to women.

6 minutes ago, exchemist said:

OK. The BBC article explores the issue. In the UK, only female radiographers can carry out mammography on women patients, and this is partly to maximise take-up of the free breast cancer screening service offered by the NHS. Obviously the more of the population take part in screening, the better, both for citizens and for health costs to the nation.

It looks as though in the UK about 70% of radiographers are female (whereas only 25% of radiologists are women). There is plenty of work for male radiographers to do. I have never heard of men avoiding radiography as a profession, as you suggest. But it is the case that many of the “caring” profession are more female than male, nursing being the most obvious example.

It also states there "Mammography is the only health examination carried out exclusively by female staff." Applying the same logic, why are women not excluded from studying the male urinary tract? Its idiotic in my opinion.

1 minute ago, exchemist said:

having their tits groped by some guy

There is NOTHING sexual about mammographic screening

2 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Men, on the other hand, tend not to be quite so shy about exposing their bodies to women.

Look I don't want to make enemies, but please don't generalize shit

16 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Because it is what women prefer. They, by and large, don’t fancy having their tits groped by some guy. And we do need as many women as possible to come forward for screening.

Men, on the other hand, tend not to be quite so shy about exposing their bodies to women.

There is also a decent population size saying they do not care

39 minutes ago, exchemist said:

But it is the case that many of the “caring” professions are more female than male, nursing being the most obvious example. That seems to be to do with human instincts, one of the many differences between the sexes.

I simply could not care if either were my nurses, its illogical to limit a STEM field by gender. This has no bearing on gender either.

25 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I understand its a very sensitive/intimate process but why is that? Female Urologists from what I know are trained with both the male and female urinary tracts, why can only female radiographers can carry out mammography on women patients?

There is a steeper gender gap in urology. In the US, only 10% of urologists are women https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-023-00777-4#ref-CR1

Finding a female urologist would be challenging. A lower gender gap is among Ob/Gyns which about a third being men. I think especially for mammography it is a bit of a historic and cultural issue. It is a female dominated discipline, which discourages men from entering. As such, in many countries it simply became the norm. I am not sure if there are regulatory requirements outside of the UK.

29 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Because it is what women prefer. They, by and large, don’t fancy having their tits groped by some guy. And we do need as many women as possible to come forward for screening.

I am not really sure that this is necessarily the case. Or at least I am unaware whether there is data to support this. Anecdotally, I have heard that quite a few women prefer a female gynecologist but are generally alright with whoever they can get that is somewhat capable.

Hey, guys I wouldn't have posted the link if I had though it was going to start a war.

Just now, CharonY said:

There is a steeper gender gap in urology. In the US, only 10% of urologists are women https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-023-00777-4#ref-CR1

Finding a female urologist would be challenging. A lower gender gap is among Ob/Gyns which about a third being men. I think especially for mammography it is a bit of a historic and cultural issue. It is a female dominated discipline, which discourages men from entering. As such, in many countries it simply became the norm. I am not sure if there are regulatory requirements outside of the UK.

Still, women are encouraged to enter the field

They likely also study the male and female urinary tract etc, why is there no limit there?

1 minute ago, studiot said:

Hey, guys I wouldn't have posted the link if I had though it was going to start a war.

4 minutes ago, CharonY said:

I am not really sure that this is necessarily the case. Or at least I am unaware whether there is data to support this. Anecdotally, I have heard that quite a few women prefer a female gynecologist but are generally alright with whoever they can get that is somewhat capable.

Thank you. Hopefully I did not come across as insensitive.

40 minutes ago, exchemist said:

tits groped by some guy.

Is this even appropriate or on topic at all wtf?

47 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

It also states there "Mammography is the only health examination carried out exclusively by female staff." Applying the same logic, why are women not excluded from studying the male urinary tract? Its idiotic in my opinion.

There is NOTHING sexual about mammographic screening

Look I don't want to make enemies, but please don't generalize shit

There is also a decent population size saying they do not care

I simply could not care if either were my nurses, its illogical to limit a STEM field by gender. This has no bearing on gender either.

This is an incoherent muddle.

Your personal attitudes are neither here nor there, so let's park them for a start.

The issue about there not being anything sexual about breast screening is obviously true, objectively speaking. However this is not about that. It is about perception, by a segment of the female population. The BBC article goes into that, quoting someone from a breast cancer charity who appears to have evidence that having a man doing it puts some women off. There is also a reference to various religious minorities (muslim women come to mind) who would find it culturally quite unacceptable. The UK NHS struggles, generally, to get enough people from some segments of society, including people of South Asian, Caribbean and African heritage, to come forward for some of the free services that make the population healthier, such as screening programmes and vaccinations. So that is relevant background to why the policy has been what it has, up to now.

Nevertheless, as the article makes clear, the issue is being re-examined, as times have changed since the policy was introduced, people being somewhat less prudish than they used to be. Maybe the policy will change. If it does, you will be pushing at an open door.

Your question about why women are not excluded from studying the male urinary tract is just silly. No male health professional is excluded from studying the female breast. Both male general practitioners and male surgeons involved in carrying out cancer excisions need to know this area of anatomy.

Edited May 1May 1 by exchemist

47 minutes ago, studiot said:

Hey, guys I wouldn't have posted the link if I had though it was going to start a war.

The OP posts as if he has an agenda, sowing division apparently one of them. Not your fault

16 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Perhaps when you get the chance, answer my question if possible.

Already did. I said I reject your premise. Did you need me to use smaller words?

17 minutes ago, iNow said:

Already did. I said I reject your premise. Did you need me to use smaller words?

You said "Unwilling to accept your premise just bc you say so."

I provided sources

Perhaps open your mind, need smaller words?

19 minutes ago, iNow said:

The OP posts as if he has an agenda, sowing division apparently one of them. Not your fault

Point out where I had an agenda brother.

27 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Your question about why women are not excluded from studying the male urinary tract is just silly.

Not only are you misinterpreting what I am saying, you are significantly off. I said it applies with the same logic if there are such restrictions, you also missed how in my original statement I said "women are encouraged to enter the field (Which I support 100%)" regarding urology.

21 minutes ago, iNow said:

Already did. I said I reject your premise. Did you need me to use smaller words?

Your asking for me to respond in a rude manner, perhaps due what's in the forums name SCIENCE

Be ok to the fact that you are "not adapting" EVEN WITH ARTICLES PROVIDED

31 minutes ago, exchemist said:

No male health professional is excluded from studying the female breast. Both male general practitioners and male surgeons involved in carrying out cancer excisions need to know this area of anatomy.

As I said, there are significant limitations. Lets also go at your previous statement while we are at it shall WE? "Having their tits groped by some guy" your describing a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL HERE NOT A PERSON WHO COMMITS SEXUAL ASSAULT.

34 minutes ago, exchemist said:

This is an incoherent muddle.

Yes there is, I clearly acknowledged the sensitivity of the issue before you escalated it.

@iNow is also accusing me of having an agenda 🤨, stay on topic and please retract your previous statement

30 minutes ago, iNow said:

The OP posts as if he has an agenda, sowing division apparently one of them. Not your fault

Feel free to point out my agenda @iNow

17 hours ago, iNow said:

Citation needed.

Citation was provided, perhaps read the thread before you comment

In research focused on African American women and breast cancer screening, over half (53%) of respondents explicitly stated indifference to the gender of their mammography provider. This finding indicates a broad segment of the population does not assign importance to whether their healthcare provider during mammography is male or female.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07399332.2011.565527#:~:text=%E2%80%A6%20provider%20gender%20preferences,%2853%25%20%E2%80%A6&text=with%20mammography%20%E2%80%A6%20provider,%2853%25%20%E2%80%A6&text=among%20African%20American%20women.,%2853%25%20%E2%80%A6&text=respondents%20stated%20indifference%20to,%2853%25%20%E2%80%A6

There is a shortage of radiographers qualified to perform breast screening. - H.M. Warren-Forward and J. Ashton on Science Direct

Some survey-based research extends the discussion by assessing general satisfaction levels with providers, rather than strict preference. For example, a study of patient attitudes toward obstetrician-gynecologists found that 72.5% of women surveyed were satisfied with providers of either gender or expressed no strong preference, indicating overall comfort and adaptability in accepting care from either male or female practitioners in intimate health contexts. While not specifically limited to mammography, these attitudes are generally consistent across related medical disciplines.

De Gruyter Brill

Do Women Prefer Care From Female or Male Obstetrician-Gyn...

Objective: To determine whether men should be encouraged to enter the medical specialty of obstetrics and gynecology. Methods: A self-administered survey was designed for and distributed to patient...

Has nothing to do with "difference between sexes" or men groping women in sexual areas or complaints to my knowledge.

Keep in mind there is also a SHORTAGE of RADIOGRAPHERS, the more people we can get the push this scientific front, the better

2 hours ago, studiot said:

Hey, guys I wouldn't have posted the link if I had though it was going to start a war.

You did nothing wrong at all.

3 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

There is NOTHING sexual about mammographic screening

ExC was addressing how some patients feel, not the rational analysis that one can make about mammography. His point was that, if more women prefer for a female to conduct a breast examination, then having female staff provided will improve the effectiveness of screening. It is not our place to judge women who prefer not to have men examining their breasts. The medical profession tries to respect personal modesty and not have people abstain from diagnostic procedures due to such feelings.

4 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I simply could not care if either were my nurses

But that’s a decision you can only make for yourself. You can’t order someone else to be comfortable in a certain situation. And I don’t think you want to do any additional thing that would make women avoid cancer detection screening.

Also, there is a zero-sum game in employment. If there are professions that have a disproportionate fraction of men, there must end up being at least one with a disproportionate fraction of women. That’s unavoidable.

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

ExC was addressing how some patients feel, not the rational analysis that one can make about mammography. His point was that, if more women prefer for a female to conduct a breast examination, then having female staff provided will improve the effectiveness of screening. It is not our place to judge women who prefer not to have men examining their breasts. The medical profession tries to respect personal modesty and not have people abstain from diagnostic procedures due to such feelings.

I am not disagreeing with you at all, if a person requests for a female/male mammographer 100% they should receive it, I have a problem the the statement "having their tits groped by some guy." Imagine passing the board exam, med school etc and do your job only to be told "having their tits groped by some guy." They are doing scientific work, not **** or sexual assault. Exchemist needs to draw a fine line there.

29 minutes ago, swansont said:

But that’s a decision you can only make for yourself. You can’t order someone else to be comfortable in a certain situation. And I don’t think you want to do any additional thing that would make women avoid cancer detection screening.

Also, there is a zero-sum game in employment. If there are professions that have a disproportionate fraction of men, there must end up being at least one with a disproportionate fraction of women. That’s unavoidable.

I see what your saying (At this point everyone's just gonna DV me), but there should be no restrictions on men being mammographers. There is a huge gender disparity in urology, yet women are encouraged to enter the field without "stereotypes" based off their choosing in field of study. When I often argue this with people there statement is "Its primarily single sex," KEY WORD THERE "PRIMARILY," it still affects both sexes. Anyway, my point is that considering there is a shortage of radiographers, everyone interested should be encouraged to enter the field regardless of gender. The more people we can get the push this scientific front, the better

I wrote this in great haste so if I was incorrect statistically, please correct me. Thank you!

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

ExC was addressing how some patients feel, not the rational analysis that one can make about mammography. His point was that, if more women prefer for a female to conduct a breast examination, then having female staff provided will improve the effectiveness of screening. It is not our place to judge women who prefer not to have men examining their breasts. The medical profession tries to respect personal modesty and not have people abstain from diagnostic procedures due to such feelings.

In the studies I listed, they either enforce that the slight majority or large minority did not care for a specific gender to perform the mammography.

Just now, Sohan Lalwani said:

I see what your saying (At this point everyone's just gonna DV me), but there should be no restrictions on men being mammographers. There is a huge gender disparity in urology, yet women are encouraged to enter the field without "stereotypes" based off their choosing in field of study. When I often argue this with people there statement is "Its primarily single sex," KEY WORD THERE "PRIMARILY," it still affects both sexes. Anyway, my point is that considering there is a shortage of radiographers, everyone interested should be encouraged to enter the field regardless of gender. The more people we can get the push this scientific front, the better

You are posting a large number of statements and claims about certain aspects of Medicine.

How much personal experience do you have of this?

Or is this just stuff you are digging up to prolong the discussion?

Just now, studiot said:

You are posting a large number of statements and claims about certain aspects of Medicine

How much personal experience do you have of this?

Or is this just stuff you are digging up to prolong the discussion?

I am posting whatever credible sources support my opinion while looking at everyone's point of view. This is intriguing and i genuinely love this forum so I say this to prove a point and prolong the discussion long enough until all oppositions reach terms.

Just now, Sohan Lalwani said:

I am posting whatever credible sources support my opinion while looking at everyone's point of view. This is intriguing and i genuinely love this forum so I say this to prove a point and prolong the discussion long enough until all oppositions reach terms.

But that didn't answer my question.

FYI My family's association with the medical sector goes back generations.

My daughter has a medical degree from Edinburgh and post graduate Pharmacy from Aberdeen.
Her childhood friend who is the daughter of one of my wife's London University friends is now a consultant (if you know what that means) radiologist with the South london Hospitals group. (radiologists are in even shorter supply than radiographers).
Of my daughter's medical friends one male is a consultant gynaecologist in Belfast, others have taken up various specialities.

So, although not personally a medical professional I have long been very close to it.

Just now, studiot said:

But that didn't answer my question.

FYI My family's association with the medical sector goes back generations.

My daughter has a medical degree from Edinburgh and post graduate Pharmacy from Aberdeen.
Her childhood friend who is the daughter of one of my wife's London University friends is now a consultant (if you know what that means) radiologist with the South london Hospitals group. (radiologists are in even shorter supply than radiographers).
Of my daughter's medical friends one male is a consultant gynaecologist in Belfast, others have taken up various specialities.

So, although not personally a medical professional I have long been very close to it.

Nice, both my parents likewise do medical sciences. For context, my mother is a physician and my father is a researcher. I for one am also planning to do so. I have likewise been close to it. Have you considered doing volunteer work at a hospital if it interests you perhaps?

Just now, Sohan Lalwani said:

Nice, both my parents likewise do medical sciences. For context, my mother is a physician and my father is a researcher. I for one am also planning to do so. I have likewise been close to it. Have you considered doing volunteer work at a hospital if it interests you perhaps?

What makes you think I haven't aready done that ?