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dimreepr

Why does gravity prevent a TOE?

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If gravity is a distortion of space-time and all the other forces are framed by space-time, what separates the frame of reference?

Please remember, I am but a simple layman...

Edited by dimreepr

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I'm trying.

The reference of the non-distortion frame in relation to our proper time.

IOW the distortion is detected in relation to the fixed reference grid.

Gravity represents the vector magnitude and the force of the distortion. Without gravity there is no more distortion.

Gravity is TOE.

Does maximum distortion lead to condensed matter?

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Not sure I know what you mean.
Space-time and reference frames are both mathematical constructs; coordinate systems, if you will, where events happen.
Maybe you could re-phrase the question ?

And I'm sure I have no clue what Kartazion means.

As to a TOE, I'm not even sure there can be such a thing; are you sure you don't mean Quantum Gravity ?

In very simple terms, Quantum Gravity is a quantum field theory with expected Gravitons as field excitations.
As such, it needs to be re-normalizable to get rid of the infinities that arise from all virtual graviton interactions.
Unlike QED, QCD and QFD, gravity is self-interacting;  the infinities resist re-normalization and do not go away.

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16 hours ago, dimreepr said:

If gravity is a distortion of space-time and all the other forces are framed by space-time, what separates the frame of reference?

I presume what you are actually referring to is a model of quantum gravity (a TOE is a different issue altogether).
There is a standard framework to turn a given classical field theory into a quantum field theory - this prescription works just fine when used on the electromagnetic, weak and strong interactions. However, if we attempt to apply the methodology to gravity, the result is physically meaningless, because it is full of infinities (as MigL correctly stated, the result is not renormalizable). One part of the problem is that the other interactions happen in spacetime, so spacetime is kind of a necessary fixed background against which the physics play out; gravity is different in that regard, since here spacetime itself is where the dynamics happen.
There are other reasons why this does not work, but most of them are quite technical.

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My interpretation of your question goes along the same lines as MigL's and Markus'. Just adding more raisins to the cake...

The problem is in the scaling properties of the coupling constant (1 over mass squared). They make it blow up at large energies (short distances) in an uncontrollable way --> Non-renormalizability.

Gravity cannot be 'tamed' with the techniques of QFT.

In recent years it has been found that supersymmetric gravity can be quantum-mechanically tamed. But supersymmetry is proving very elusive.

I sense a question within your question though: How come gravity is so special? What sets it apart from the other ones? Other interactions can be pictured as 'arrows' on the reference frame, signaling a distortion in it along internal directions; but gravity is a distortion of the reference frame itself.

Maybe the re-phrasing of the question that MigL was asking for is here:

2 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

One part of the problem is that the other interactions happen in spacetime, so spacetime is kind of a necessary fixed background against which the physics play out; gravity is different in that regard, since here spacetime itself is where the dynamics happen.

Is that it?

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21 hours ago, Kartazion said:

I'm trying.

The reference of the non-distortion frame in relation to our proper time.

IOW the distortion is detected in relation to the fixed reference grid.

Gravity represents the vector magnitude and the force of the distortion. Without gravity there is no more distortion.

Gravity is TOE.

Does maximum distortion lead to condensed matter?

Isn't it the other way round?

6 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

I presume what you are actually referring to is a model of quantum gravity (a TOE is a different issue altogether).

20 hours ago, MigL said:

As to a TOE, I'm not even sure there can be such a thing; are you sure you don't mean Quantum Gravity ?

Thanks for the replies +1.

If a unified field theory isn't a TOE, what is a TOE?

3 hours ago, joigus said:

I sense a question within your question though: How come gravity is so special? What sets it apart from the other ones?

I understand that it's not technically a force, but since it all plays out on the same stage?

+1 for you too, wish it could be two.

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15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Isn't it the other way round?

Oops. Yes you are right. 

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1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

If a unified field theory isn't a TOE, what is a TOE?

You better not say "42"...

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16 hours ago, dimreepr said:

If a unified field theory isn't a TOE, what is a TOE?

A TOE is a model that - at least in principle - would be able to describe any phenomenon in the real world under one overarching framework; or to put it differently, it’s a model that would be able to produce all the various sub-disciplines of physics as limiting cases. This also includes disciplines that don’t naturally arise from the field theories of the Standard Model (and its various extensions) alone, such as thermodynamics for example.

It is possible that quantum gravity might turn out to be the same as a TOE, but at the moment these are taken to be two different - albeit closely related - things. It is also possible that such a thing as a TOE might not exist at all.

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