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jajrussel

Did Paul exist?

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It is written that he had an affliction. That he was a prisoner, apparently a traveling one. That at least one person could care less about his chains and actively sought him out. I've read that he was beheaded which might go to show that someone named Paul existed if the act was officially recorded. And then...

I realise that society was probably somewhat civilized even back then. But to haul someone around in chains from village to village and allow them to have company over to socialize, to send and receive mail, all seems well, a little bit too civilized. I realise that we can believe incredibly foolish negative things about the way other peoples in other societies live, but did the Romans actually send out roving patrols to police and gather up specific persons to haul around in chains until their circuit route was complete, all the while affording them every social courtesy presumably entitled to every Roman citizen? It seems a stretch if the imagination.

Even more incredible than the story of Jesus... A story about a man who's life story, is the life that Jesus is said to have taught that people should live.

It seems convenient. It seems too incredible.

Was Roman society such at the time that what is said to have occurred could have occurred?

 

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There is good evidence Paul existed. His writings are known and early copies still exist today Here. It seems you are asking a larger question than whether or not Paul existed. Paul existing is not equal to everything Paul is credited of writing being true. 

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10 hours ago, Ten oz said:

There is good evidence Paul existed. His writings are known and early copies still exist today Here. It seems you are asking a larger question than whether or not Paul existed. Paul existing is not equal to everything Paul is credited of writing being true. 

Perhaps I should have been more vague in the topic title. I'm not just questioning his existence reading his writings. The implications are that it was coming to take a prisoner and chain him and carry him from village to village all the while allowing him the civil liberties of a free person accept freedom.

This sounds a little too civilized even today, let alone in ancient times. Anyone could write a popular stories about a man who sent and received letters, who had people actively seeking him out in whatever village he happened to be in. Dosen't that seem odd? Paul is actually credited with so much writing that at first I didn't know that he was a prisoner most of the time. He went here with this person he went there with that person. Then he is in chains and no matter where they take him people that he knows from that town come looking for him. It is more like a made for TV movie than like real life. He sends letters to people telling them what they should or shouldn't do. Letters that seem to have had a magical ability to survive. Is it common to find letters from that era? The truth is I find it kind of of difficult to believe that when biblical writings are found it is almost always groups of the same writings. Hundreds of miles apart as if the findings are meant to be proof of the stories they tell. They are never good copies, usually falling apart written in a language that seems to change in meaning depending on the most popular view of what it should mean at the time of the new and improved translation. I remember reading in my late twenties a commentary on John were the scholar attributed the Word as being the same as God. The newer editions are not the same. Apparently the relative who inherited the rights to the commentary said something to the effect it may have been what he wrote but it was not what he meant, so it was rewritten in more sellable way. Apparently it is okay if you are of the religion and a relative to write a disclaimer of the original then rewrite someone's life work.

I'm fairly certain that at some point in the future 2nd Timothy 3:16 will attribute the scriptures Paul spoke of to being all about Jesus, and forget to mention the parts about relating to how to be a good person and live a good life.

So I am not just questioning his existence, it's the incredibility of the story. It could be an engraved on gold plates, but is the story real? What's the probability that a man could have lived the life he is said to have lived at that time?

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Paul was a person of high importance in the Jewish nation .. a Pharisee of the Pharisees, a Son of a Pharisee, a leader of the rapidly growing Christian people.  He had to be treated like gold by the Romans, they had to determine his value to Rome.   When it became apparent his death would help save Rome another violent revolution from the Jews he was killed to appease the Jews.  Rome knew the Christians were not a violent threat, and that the preaching of Christ lead to peace and non-violence.  He was enabled to preach as a value to Rome.  Then he was killed as a value to Rome.  To ask if Paul was real is to ask if the bible is true. 

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9 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

To ask if Paul was real is to ask if the bible is true.

How? To ask if JK Rowlings is real is to ask if the Harry Potter books are true? How so? - I'd have to agree with TenOz here:

 

On ‎05‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:37 PM, Ten oz said:

Paul existing is not equal to everything Paul is credited of writing being true.

 

 

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On 10/5/2018 at 5:57 AM, jajrussel said:

But to haul someone around in chains from village to village and allow them to have company over to socialize, to send and receive mail, all seems well, a little bit too civilized. I realise that we can believe incredibly foolish negative things about the way other peoples in other societies live, but did the Romans actually send out roving patrols to police and gather up specific persons to haul around in chains until their circuit route was complete, all the while affording them every social courtesy presumably entitled to every Roman citizen? It seems  stretch if the imagination.

2

Don't we do similar with house arrest monitors? The only reason we don't drag them around is because we no longer have routes and circuits.

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