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I'm apparently in good company in that regard. I'm having/had far more success with them then with yourself. The basis of the facts that time and distance are great barriers between inter-stellar contact, while any apparent language difficulty, with an advanced species, would most likely be overcome via mathematics and illustrations, as most reasonable cosmologists/scientists anticipate as shown with the Pioneers and Voyagers. And an hypothesis it remains. Good luck with any progress with that. Only if you remain as obtuse as you seem to be maintaining. You raised the position of life forms that exist without "direct" energy from the Sun. I am showing you that nothing at all exists without the Sun and other stars....As a great man said, "we were all (including the elements) born in the belly of stars" Carl Sagan. Still not answering the OP question? Why? Against your religion? philosophy? 🥱

I mean if it is a BH that has formed entirely from DM, or a BH from baryonic matter, or a mixture of both, there is no way to tell the difference.

Still the nature of the BH would be the same?

Australia just won the third cricket test and the Ashes, being played in Melbourne, by an Innings and 14 runs, going three up in the best of five tests series. For our non cricket playing nations, the cricket Ashes was born in 1882 when a combined team from the Australian colonies, (before we obtained nationhood) defeated England in England and a satirical obitary appeared in the English paper, lamenting the defeat thus..... test cricket is played over five days, six hours a day, with each side of 11 men have two innings to bat. The current test that just concluded saw Australia score 267 in the first innings against England's 185, and then bowling England out for 68 in their second innings, still 14 runs shy of Australia's first innings total. Our bowlers simply were too fast, too consistent, and too good for the hapless English batsmen. Two more tests to go and we all hope England can improve and make a fight of it, despite losing the ashes in three tests. The top scoring Australian opening batsman Marcus Harris scoring his 76 runs, setting the groundwork for a great win and the ashes.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-interpreters-how-linguists-would-talk-to-extraterrestrials/ extract: "On the other hand, there's the argument that any species that achieves a high level of technology would necessarily understand certain concepts, so that ought to provide a basis for at least a limited degree of communication," he added. Keren Rice, a linguist at the University of Toronto in Canada, agreed that basic communication should be possible between humans and aliens. "The only way that I could imagine this not happening is if the things that we think are common to languages—situating in time [and] space, talking about participants, etc.—are so radically different that the human language provides no starting point for it," Rice told Live Science in an email. Although there are evolutionary roots to the structure of human language, Snedeker said, it's possible that there's only one way for languages to work. In that case, aliens may have evolved to solve the problem of language in the same way that humans did, making interplanetary communication possible. Everett agreed. "It's entirely possible that there are languages that have systems of organization and ways of transmitting meaning that we've never imagined," he said, "but I think that's unlikely." But even if people are able to discern the patterns in the language, the way the message is sent could be a challenge. Humans communicate mainly through sight, sound and touch, but aliens might not. "It's hard to imagine a language working on taste, but who knows?" Everett said. If extraterrestrials have starkly different perceptual or expressive systems than those of humans, technology could help bridge the gap between human perception and alien output, linguists said. For example, if aliens spoke at frequencies that people can't hear, humans could instead interpret digital recordings as visual waveforms. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The article concludes thus...."There's no right answer to the question," Snedeker said. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: So we can speculate about language/communication between Alien species and ourselves, as much as we like, but it all remains speculative and the only true valid facts are time and distance being the two great barriers between inter-species contact. My dogs don't even have a language, but I communicate with them quite successfully. Let's hope that dimreeper can find the time, to answer the question/s in the OP, just as I have answered and offered my views and links, relating to his inquisitions. While I obviously see the priorty in answering the OP question/s, I am not that concerned with this current language "connection." But your suggestion in starting a new thread has merit. Perhaps starting with transferring those "off topic" posts on language to another thread as a start?

Your usual tit for tat approach? It is relevant to your own statement of inquiry, that obviously you fail to understand, or are you just being obtuse ? Nothing exists without stars. Got it? Language is at best a minor hindrance to inter-stellar contact, but nowhere near the barriers that time and distance are. I was in Panama for 6 days, i did not and still do not understand Spanish, and got on admirably! And again, of course, far more intelligent people than you, understand that mathematics and illustrations between reasonably intelligent species, should overcome any language barriers between them. But hey! you still havn't answered the OP's question. It really isn't that difficult.... 1. Possible alien origins Another planetary system Another plan of existence Another hidden (deep sea or underground would be possible examples) civilization. Time travelers from the far future ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: My answer was........ That is somewhat supported here.......https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/15/scientists-say-most-likely-number-of-contactable-alien-civilisations-is-36 extract: "He added that, while it is a speculative theory, he believes alien life would have similarities in appearance to life on Earth. “We wouldn’t be super shocked by seeing them,” he said". "Under the strictest set of assumptions – where, as on Earth, life forms between 4.5bn and 5.5bn years after star formation – there are likely between four and 211 civilisations in the Milky Way today capable of communicating with others, with 36 the most likely figure. But Conselice noted that this figure is conservative, not least as it is based on how long our own civilisation has been sending out signals into space – a period of just 100 years so far." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Obviously that article by professional people, also agree with me re language not being any barrier as such. I believe you should understand this, but for some reason???....... Let me attempt again....You said you challenge me to show language isn't a barrier.....surely you are aware of the plaques on the Voyagers and Pioneers craft that mathematically and via illustration, hope to convey to any possible advanced civilisation that may intercept them. Let me assure you dimreeper, that if and when we make contact with a similar advanced species, the language difficulties will be secondary to the abilty to have overcome the distances and consequently time barriers. In summing I'm pretty sure that we can be optimistic that taking into acount the universal nature of physical laws and such, would be certainly enough to overcome any supposed barriers of reasonable communication, with advanced species. In essence, it would be the least of our worries ( and the advanced Alien's worries) in answering mankind's ( and probably the advanced Aliens) greatest question. Are we alone. They are my views for what they are worth, in answering your inquisitions. Please, at least try (just for me?) to answer the OP question/s. If you have answered it and I have missed it, then I am really sorry about that, so I beg your forgiveness and ask you to answer again....pretty please? Sure, and you have been answered now three times.

Which is why I asked the question, " and secondly, how viable and accurate is this news actually, coming from China?"

Murdoch owned says enough. Thanks for the other link, actually one of my top choices for science news. It seems significant progress then has been made with fusion reactors.

https://www.the-sun.com/tech/4330598/china-fires-up-artificial-sun/ HOT TO TROT China fires up ‘artificial sun’ 7 times warmer than the real sun to make unlimited energy – and wants to make it HOTTER CHINA has fired up a machine designed to make unlimited energy known as the "artificial sun" - and wants to make it even hotter than the real sun. Tests being run on the Experiential Advanced Superconducting Tokamak (EAST) trying to get a higher temperature and longer duration at the Hefei Institutes of Physical Science research centre. The device is already close to seven times warmer than the sun, but scientists are trying to upgrade the EAST's auxiliary heating system to make it more "hot" and "durable", local media Xinhua News Agency reported. Designed and developed by the Chinese, the EAST has been used since 2006 by scientists from all around the world to conduct fusion-related experiments. More than 10,000 Chinese and foreign scientific researchers have worked together to bring to life the artificial sun. more at link...................... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My first two questions....how reputable for accurate news is the US Sun? and secondly, how viable and accurate is this news actually, coming from China? a small extract.... "He said: “Five years from now, we will start to build our fusion reactor, which will need another 10 years of construction. "After that is built we will construct the power generator and start generating power by around 2040."

While the thread has evolved, you still have not answered the OP question, and your continued objections to me raising that position is rather telling. Again, (as per the thread evolution, as you raised) most cosmologists accept that while we have no concrete evidence for life off the Earth, it is most likely there, somewhere, sometime. To a lesser extent, some of that life may have evolved to somewhere near our own advancement, and are undertaking space endeavours also. That obviously would not be any as yet undiscovered life within our own stellar system. Which again raises the two prohibitive aspects pushing against interstellar contact...time and distance. Language, (that which you seem to think is another barrier) is nothing more than a slight inconvenience, that the language of mathematics will help to overcome, along with other illustrative methods that we ourselves have attempted with the Pioneers and Voyagers, if by chance they are one day intercepted by some advanced Alien species. But again, as Confucious was reported to have said, "a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single footstep", so once again why are you so apprehensive about answering the question in the OP? Instead of practising whatever it is that you are trying to practise. PS: Of course for your information and edification, the OP assumes that we have been visited by Alien controlled craft, from somewhere, sometime. As facts stand at this time, we have no concrete evidence to support any visitation by any advanced species. Again, on one of your early "inquisitions" The Sagan quote of course is relevent....nothing exists without stars. You do understand that this is where our elements all come from, yes? (other then H and some He of course) Stars have a habit of going nova and supernova, and spread their guts (the elements) throughout the universe. We need energy to exist...we get that energy from the Sun fundamentally, and via food as an extension. Without that energy we hunger and die. That applies to any living organism. Nothing exists without stars. And that just a small sample of how you obfuscate, based on your unsupported and refuted claim, that language is a barrier preventing contact. It isn't, as I have shown.

"James Webb has 344 “single points of failure” along its complex deployment process. If a step during deployment goes wrong, or if something appears off, mission managers at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore would pause the deployment process and determine a new way to proceed. But should a problem arise that would require repair, a robotic spacecraft could be sent to get the job done, Pam Melroy, NASA’s deputy administrator, said in an interview. “Have we talked about it? Oh yes we have talked about it,” said Ms. Melroy, whose previous job leading the tactical technology office at DARPA, the Pentagon’s research and development agency, made her a “big fan of robotic servicing.” “I think we could actually put something together that would allow us to send a refueler or a servicer out there,” she said. “It might take a few years to pull all that together.” extract from https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/25/science/webb-telescope-launch-nasa ADVERTISEMENT

https://www.space.com/nasa-james-webb-space-telescope-launch-success So far, so good...all systems nominal.

We have also discovered 4000 odd "normal" planets with a parent star/s, and are still not sure whether they contain, or can contain life or not...that even applies to some extent within our solar system. eg: Europa, Enceledus.

Hmmm, let's remind you again..... Alien Origin thought experiment: Possible alien origins Another planetary system Another plan of existence Another hidden (deep sea or underground would be possible examples) civilization. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Or the one. Again, answer the question, or do you see that reasonable request as condescending also?

Yep, let's hope it all goes to plan....remembering at L2 (1.5 million kms, we won't be able to send astronauts to repair.

(1) A possibility sure, but are we not also seeing the need for "extra matter" over smaller scales? Plus GR is our gravitational explanation/theory for the very large. (2) Yep a possibility. (3) Little BH's in the early denser universe, could grow into bigger SMBH's before they had time to evaporate. My thoughts are (1) Primordial BH's MACHO's (2) WIMPS, and (3) GR

IMO probably because they (UAP's and UFO's) are not Alien craft. (1) You either assume they (Alien visitations) exist or that they don't exist. (2) If they are undertaking inter stellar travel, it's reasonable to assume they are advanced beings, and would at least try, most probably via mathematics. (3) The next question would be why? You still havn't answered the OP question. My understanding for what its worth, is there for all to see. Why are you so reluctant to answering the OP question?

Yes, I should have worded that slightly differently.

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/126284-primordial-black-holes/

All is explained by Star Trek technobabble! Still, I loved the show, both the original and New generation....

Language is not so much a barrier to contact, but creates difficulties in communicating. If we received some garbled signal from the depths of Europa, or Proxima Centauri b, I'm damn sure we would be sending a probe or signal back, (probably mathematical) there as quick as possible to investigate/contact. I actually find the hypocrisy in that as remarkable. The question in the OP is "Possible origins of the "aliens" in UFOs or UAPs" Another planetary system Another plan of existence Another hidden (deep sea or underground would be possible examples) civilization. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I gave my answer to that early in the piece...and repeated it for your benefit a day or so ago. Here it is again.......Try answering that and stop playing your silly philosophical games. "I'm with an advanced civilisation from another planetary system. Perhaps the "human resemblance" evolutionary process, is simply the most favoured to reach advanced intelligence and associated abilities. What I mean is that while an Octupus is obviously "intelligent" it is still confined somewhat by its evolutionary path. I pick a civilisation from another planet simly because of the "near infinite" extent and content of our universe, and the stuff of life being everywhere we look." What is your choice? Why?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/astronomers-discover-hidden-water-in-the-red-planets-grand-canyon-180979267/ A Martian orbiter located a large reserve of hydrogen in a mountainous area of the Red Planet Elizabeth Gamillo Daily Correspondent December 20, 2021 3:28 p.m. A region within Mars's Valles Marineris (pictured) called the Candor Chaos had a large amount of hydrogen about a meter below the surface. European Space Agency extract: "Using TGO's data from May 2018 to February 2021, the team found a large amount of hydrogen beneath the surface of Mars' version of the Grand Canyon, called Candor Chaos. If all of that hydrogen is bound into water molecules, a subsurface region about the size of the Netherlands could be about 40 percent water, explains the study's lead author Igor Mitrofanov of the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, who is principal investigator of FREND, in a statement. "We found a central part of Valles Marineris to be packed full of water — far more water than we expected," Malakhov said in a statement. "This is very much like Earth's permafrost regions, where water ice permanently persists under dry soil because of the constant low temperatures." The water, however, does not appear as abundant liquid lakes found on Earth. Instead, scientists suspect the Martian dust is riddled with ice or water bonded to minerals, CNN's Ashley Strickland reports. Minerals in this region, however, are not know to contain much water. While ice may seem more likely based on what researchers know about other potential sources of hydrogen on Mars, the temperatures and pressure conditions in the Valles Marineris, situated just below the Martian equator, prohibit the formation of these types of water preserves, Science Alert reports." more at link.............

Nana Mouskouri - Schubert's Serenade Nana Mouskouri: Only time will tell (Schubert's Adagio Notturno)

I actually concur with your final comment.