iNow

Sure, I’ll guess! How about: Arbitrary? If you dislike that answer, we could always choose instead something about “individuals exist along a spectrum,” maybe? Hmm… no. You’re right. That’s probably arbitrary, too. May I perhaps come back to you on this another time? Human categories and labels with their context dependence and evolution over time is annoying sometimes, we agree. What is a “typical extent” in context of this alleged advantage? If something is “typical,” then surely large numbers are involved. Yet you’ve been asked several times for evidence and examples and she’s still the only one you’ve cited AFAICT.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "less potential," why this matters, and then finally why we are supposedly not allowed to consider them elite. Yes, you keep saying this. I'm not buying it.

Which is why I reference acceptance (more specifically, the lack of acceptance) as part of the problem. These trans individuals are not accurately described as "men." Continuing to use the wrong labels for them is a form of prejudice. Like this, for example. Refusal to accept them. In fairness to you, this is my own interpretation of your comments and not something you've explicitly stated. However, it's embedded in nearly every comment you make. You continue talking about how unfair it would be for a person born with XY chromosomes to compete in elite sports previously populated solely with those born with XX chromosomes. The suggestion is that the trans person born XY is somehow physically stronger, faster, etc. Multiple examples have been provided that this is not generally the case, yet you continue pursuing this line of argumentation. I am trying to summarize all of this by saying "not all trans athletes born XY are physically more capable than those born XX." Some might be, but not all... and your posts thus far don't seem to include that important nuance or acknowledgement. It's been suggested in this and nearly every other trans-related thread in which you've participated.... this idea that the trans athlete is a hulking brute who will dominate and hurt the poor defenseless lady folk.

Define "real"

How is this any different than it already is today? The better players elevate to the next level. We don’t let Labron James play on the junior varsity basketball team, either. So what? You continue operating on this fallacious premise that all trans athletes are massive Hulked out she monsters who can bench press dump trunks.

What is it about my position supporting merit-based entry and classification systems across sports divisions that is so difficult for you to comprehend? You’ve repeated this rather often. I’m not convinced it’s either true or relevant. Can you convince me?

I’m not here to draw the lines. I’m here to remind you that it’s entirely possible to do so without any reference to sex and gender. Said another way, there is no reason transgendered individuals should be prevented from competing alongside the cisgendered folks already doing so.

It’s reasonable to assume that a person who can’t figure out how to edit their profile photo at SFN likely isn’t the type of person who can change browser settings to display mobile/desktop versions or who understands the nature of payloads. ✌🏼

I am fine with merit based approaches. Old fashioned binary leagues are lazy. That said, it can also be both.

It looks different from one platform to the next. Phone is different from desktop, for example.

I just LOL’d. Thanks for that, at least. “Nuh uh, YOU are!” 😂

Nobody is taking away any of your rights, though that is a funny juxtaposition given the actual topic under discussion. You’re free to believe any silly hateful thing or resent any idea you want, but this part about refusing to accept people for who they are? That’s legitimately considered a form of prejudice.

Forgive me. I’m pretty slow. A bit of a dotard, really. Gonna need someone to speak slowly and softly to explain this to me like I’m in kindergarten. I suggested that not accepting trans people for who they are… continuing to call them he when they identify as she or making rude insinuations about castration, for example… itself might legitimately be considered a form of prejudice. You then jumped tracks and suggested that I’m accusing people of being phobic for rejecting a sexual advance in a night club. What point are you trying to convince me and others of with this line of reasoning? Because not only are they personal in nature, but they’re also an irrelevant distraction with no worth. I prefer to make my dating and sexing decisions based on the individual qualities and characteristics of the individual before me. Who cares how they identify if I find them attractive and wish to act on it? You sure as shit shouldn’t since it’s my cock and not yours.

Your logic here is weak, or at least the analogy laughable. You are basically claiming (even if only implicitly) that not being attracted to nor wanting to have sex (refusing an advance) automatically means I’m discriminating against the entire gender or class with whom that individual happens to align themselves. I might refuse advances from a female (and in fact I have on a few occasions), but that doesn’t make me a misogynist nor a woman hater. Likewise, I might refuse advances from a gay male (and here again in fact I have on a few occasions), but that doesn’t make me a homophobe. Finally, I might refuse advances from a trans or queer person (see above), but that hardly makes me anti-trans or transphobic. I am primarily advocating for a world with fewer needless divisions; for a world where more people express more positions of acceptance other humans as individuals and not as stereotyped monolithic labels. When people refuse to accept a trans person how they identify it is a type of prejudice… whether or not they happen to be hitting on you. There’s not reason for it beyond fear and lack of experience/exposure. And to repeat my previous position, I support merit based approaches to divisions in elite sports… you either meet the criteria for that group or you do not. Gender and pubic plumbing need not ever enter the equation.

It should be noted that failure to accept trans individuals as they identify can legitimately be viewed as a type of prejudice. In fairness, your comments suggest a lack of acceptance and empathy for this community, even outside the narrow boundaries of elite athleticism.

Some of us, anyway.

At that point, the concept of metabolism takes over and the answer very much depends on the composition (and size) of the object.

I recognize this wasn’t clear in my prev post, but I wasn’t referring to you Which ones? Where are these nonfictional folks, specifically?

So now one anecdote qualifies for “them” generalizations? Gotcha. I’m obviously in way over my head. 🙄 Here yet again (like reparations) we have a rando coming in merely to stir the pot and cause discord among folks who otherwise get along just fine. It’s amazing how easy some ppl make it for these folks to do so.

Thank you for confirming you’re unable to name any specific individuals or actual groups engaging in these behaviors.

Which women? Individual differences seem far more relevant here than binary gender framed averages. Who is this horrible “they” in reality, though? This sounds more like another fictional bogeyman / made up enemy than an actual group of people with any meaningful power to effect change.

Well, yeah. I reckon when we change the consensus meaning of words to better align with our own personal versions of those same words then those words start meaning different things and the conclusions they describe don’t always hold.

Likely a bot in training

Sometimes? 😆 Much obliged btw. My first thought is that this is just a sampling bias. As in… It’s always existed with similar commonality, but you just happen to see it now more often. It takes on a heavier significance in your mind than it really deserves since it seems more frequent than it did before when our datasets were limited to the local herald and balding neighbors.