MigL

I enjoy our discussions Ten oz, but sometimes your logic escapes me. How do you deal with a bully ? You stand up to him, show him what you're capable of and that the consequences of his actions outweigh any gain. Or as Zapatos says, you intimidate him. Why is it wrong to reduce the situation to as simple as possible ( my opinions and approach have been termed simplistic ) in order to effectively deal with them ?

An 'observation' is any and all interactions. We measure and observe by interacting.

But, in response to members who have said 'these people have very little to lose', the actual leaders of ISIS ( like the Taliban ) are wealthy and have studied abroad. They have plenty to lose ( or bin Laden wouldn't have hid as long as he did ). They do not do the fighting, but convince regular people 'who have little to lose', to drive explosive filled cars into check points, to kill their own and die for martyrdom, and to reclaim a state that ended long ago ). They are modern day Hitlers who can rally a misfortunate population to their own sick and misguided cause. They rally this population by lies and shows of power and brutality, such as beheadings, public executions and the willingness to die for a cause ( always others though, the leaders hide in rat-holes ). The majority of members think it unwise, but I thought our own 'show of power' ( yes a very big hammer, not an accurate one ), might challenge the influence ISIS has over these people. I thought it was worth discussing but defer to your collective opinion.

I don't think I'm muddled at all. Did you read their charter ? I have always stated that I don't have aproblem with Palestinians ( or Muslems ). I have a problem with Hamas and other terrorist organizations who are in it just for the sake of destroying a sworn enemy ( Israel ) and using their own people as pawns in the battle. If in doubt, re-read my posts from the biginning. The Palestinian's ( Gaza's ) only fault is that they picked those idiots to represent them. Other groups of Palestinians, within Israel and without, live in relative peace and with a much higher standard of living. How long before the people of Gaza get a clue, kick Hamas out, and reap the peace ?

I beg to differ, you just provided the evidence... " Depending on which scholar you ask, the atomic bomb provided various degrees of leverage for the emperor to call in a surrender" Or were you lying when you stated the above ? But lets get back on topic... There are two things that prevent war, and they don't involve good will or intentions because we are warlike animals. They are deterrence and the brutality of war. Deterrence can be summerized as 'the consequences of your actions are much worse than the actions you perpetrate', i.e. the fear of the reprisal. After all if you steal $500 and the proportional consequence is a fine of $500, there is no deterrence. People do it all the time in Vegas; its called gambling. The need for brutality in war was driven home by an episode of the original Star Trek, where two worlds had been having a 'neat' war for a thousand years. The strikes were computer generated and targeted people reported to disintegration chambers. There was no mess, no blood, no destruction and no need to end it. Nobody likes a brutal, messy war and will go to great lengths to avoid it or end it. Like the allies' reluctance to face Hitler after the brutality of WW1 ( again just an example, I don't intend to discuss Chamberlin and Hitler ). And again this is just for discussion, but maybe the arab world needs to see what their actions could result in and the brutality which we are capable of. And I'm not saying this is a viable or the only solution, but at least I'm exploring one option instead of just bit**ing and moaning that there isn't anything that can be done like a lot of members of this forum.

Causality violation is possible at the quantum level. Delayed choice entanglement swapping is one such case/experiment.

No ten oz, you keep bringing up Japan, which I used in my original post as an example. A valid one in many people's minds. You brought up two dissenting opinions, along with yours. Would it not be better to address points I made in post #14 and debate what is appropriate ?

Sorry John, I misspoke. I meant the Hamas charter, not constitution. Part II, articles 13, 15,22 and 28. And by holy book I mean the Q'uran, where it states that even rocks and trees will cry out for Muslims to come kill the Jews hiding behind them. As for you billiards, It was you who suggested 'the imagination game' and what if it was Hamas who was the military power supported by the west. Then when I do as you suggest it is no longer valid ??? You discuss, no sorry, argue, like a five year old.

I see your point Ophiolite, just as Germany has finally conquered Europe with the euro. However Ten oz, as CharonY has stated, the fire bombings which were in vogue at the time managed to kill a lot more people than either of the two nuclear explosions. Dresden comes to mind. I would think that the destructive power displayed by the individual atomic weapons is what changed Japanese general's minds. And as I've stated, this would be a pure display of power, a massive explosion of a mountain after all or most people have been warned to evacuate. I would almost think of it as a way to save lives. Discourage the enemy without the multitude of regular airstrikes or soldiers on the ground which always lead to collateral casualties.

The quote you posted makes a nice bumper sticker Ophiolite, but let's examine it in some detail. At the end of WW2, the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man to defend their islands. A couple of small nuclear explosions quickly changed their minds, they abandoned their expansionist ambitions and quickly became model citiens of the world. It may have been fear, but they realised what was at stake and what they could lose unless things changed. Now let's apply the lessons of history to the current situation. Say after 9/11 the US had dropped leaflets, made radio/TV transmissions and even loudspeakers from low flying planes, advising people to leave the area around a large mountain in the next week.They then proceed to drop a large thermonuclear device which levels the mountain leaving a glass lake, and can be seen for hundreds if not thousands of miles. Does anyone doubt that the Taliban and its offshoot ISIS, would have realised what is at stake and abandoned all plans to take the fight to the western world ? Maybe its time to remind these third world countries just how BIG our hammer really is ! Let me say that I don't personally advocate this course of action ( I'm more of an isolationist ), but bring it up to incite discussion ( not arguing and hatred ).

Yes let's play the imagination game. Do you doubt for one minute, that if Hamas had Israel's might, they wouldn't use every weapon at their disposal ( including nuclear which Israel has ) to commit genocide and kill every Jew in the area ? It is in their constitution and their 'holy' book after all. Re-read my posts in the context of the preceeding posts. Terrorists perform acts of brutality to instill fear. Police also do it, SOMETIMES, but they know its wrong and try to cover up, as in the Ferguson situation which John C. referenced. Hamas harms the Palestinian cause, they do not help it at all. Or do YOU think it helps when they execute Palestinian civilians,without trial, on alleged conspiracy charges, in a public square, in order to TERRIFY watching civilians ( notice the root word of terrify and terrorist ? ).

Sorry about the southern state comment, Zapatos. Can I plead ignorance based on the fact that I'm Canadian ?

Most police are very discreet when it comes to public shootings. They always try to hide it. Even a lot of dictatorships try to hide mass killings of their people. Terrorists on the other hand use the public display to instill fear in the general population, i.e. the more public the better. Witness decapitation videos on the internet. Why is that done, and do you see the difference ? As for comparing numbers, whether Hamas kills Palestinians by execution or by using them as shields makes little difference. You certainly don't see Israel march their Palestinian citizens to southern areas as shields where they may be hit by Hamas rockets. As a matter of fact they don't even have to do military service. It is solely shouldered by the jewish citizens. So while one could argue that Israel does more harm ( debatable ) to Palestinians, so does Hamas. And while the Palestinians cannot get rid of Israel, they could certainly improve their lives by getting rid of Hamas.

The point I was trying to make is that if we are reduced to the stone age in the next 200 yrs, we will only have sent out EM signals into space for 300 yrs, no longer. Thats a very small window compared to the ageof the universe.

While I don't doubt for a minute that this incident has some racist causes, this is the american south after all, the stats you put up are misleading, iNow. You could put up stats for male and female incarceration rates and find that the system discriminates against males. Or is it simply that males committ more crimes ? I myself am a firm believer in law and order and would really like to side with the police on this particular incident. However in the past year, even here in ( relatively ) peaceful Canada, a Toronto officer shot and killed a lone ( white ) kid armed with a pocketknife and his d**k in his other hand, on a deserted bus which was surrounded by police. He was shot NINE times and then tasered for good measure. Sometimes ( too often ? ) police go too far, and may well have in the Ferguson incident. Even if the particular officer in the Ferguson incident is a 'nice guy' and not racist, I'm sure quite a few in his department are, and maybe Brown ahd prior experiences with some of them. This could have led him to take the actions he did. My personal feelings are that police officers should be better screened and have a longer probationary period. All too often they are given immense power ( deadly weapons) over the rest of us and they seem to get drunk on this power.They need to realise, even in the southern states, that their job is to serve and protect everyone,even blacks and hispanics, and not be 'cowboys' with a gun.

I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion again... I really do empathize with the Palestinian people, they just can't seem to catch a break. Not only are the Israel armed forces targetting them, but now Hamas has started public executions of alleged ( untried ) collaborators. The Palestinian people are being oppressed by Israel and Hamas ( yes there is a difference, all Hamas are Palestinians, not all Palestinians are Hamas ). Maybe now they'll start realizing who their enemy is, and how they are hurting their chances for peace. And I guess you'll have to agree John C., since shooting people without trial, in a public square, in the back of the head, is an act of terrorism. And you have stated oppression breeds terrorism,haven't you ? .

The 'laws' that physicists deal with arise from certain symmetries inherent to our universe. And I'm sure you realise what a cop-out that is because it just moves the goalpost further back. Now you ask, 'Why are there such symmetries ?'.

All species that we know of, have populations that rise and fall, sometimes yearly. Why are we so arrogant to believe that our civiliation will last for thousands if not millions of years ? Say global warming or nuclear war or even an asteroid, reduces our population back to stone age levels,how much of our knowledge and technology will we be able to preserve? If our technological window for detecting alien transmissions only lasts a couple of hundred years before we 'lose' that capability, how does that affect the contact equation ? Now if the world law that I spoke of in the first paragraph turns out to be universal, i.e. all universal species succumb to cheap energy, destructive weapons or bad luck, such that EVERYONE's ( extra-terrestrials too ) contact window lasts a few hundred years, how does that reduce the chances of contact with aliens ? The universe isn't just very big, it has also existed a long time.

This is ridiculous. Most of the people you are arguing with, PeterJ, can define a wave function and matter, they can also tell you how they behave under most conditions. Can you do the same for conciousness, or even just define it ? Until you can, your metaphysical, Buddhist claptrap doesn't belong in a physics forum or this specific thread. My apologies if I offend.

Don't know what you mean by 'ideal condensate'.and I'm sure, neither does Imatfaal. An 'ideal gas' is simply a gas where certain simplifying assumptions have been made to ease calculations, so what assumptions are you making about an ideal ( B-E ) condensate ? Pauli Exclusion Principle applies to fermions, not bosons. You can stack as many bosons, such as photons, as you wish into the same state. You can also combine fermions, in certain ways and conditions,that their spin ( 1/2 )combine to integer values and they act as bosons. So sure, you could combine individuals in ways and conditions ( torture and brainwashing come to mind ),such that they all think and behave similarily with some form of shared conciousness, although neither I nor Imatfaal believe this belongs in a physics forum. Is that the kind of philosophy you were looking for ?

Since the north polar ice sheet is technically 'floating', its complete melting will not appreaciably raise sea levels ( some of the ice is on land such as northern greenland, etc. ). We will however have plenty of other issues to deal with when that happens !

I am not 'spinning' anything CharonY. Your own link lists ALL the causes of the 1948 exodus. You are the one who is implying the cause you quoted is the only one. Palestinians have become a minority in Israel proper because those that remained after 1948 only increased their numbers by birthrate. And since they have jobs and are more affluent than their stateless counterparts, probably have lower birthrates. Palestinians are not allowed to immigrate into Israel, did you forget that fact ? If you google the demographics of the area, the Jewish population increased roughly tenfold since 1945, and since in 1945 the population consisted of roughly 1/3 Jews to Palestinians, the population of Palestinians has decreased to roughly 70% of 1945 numbers. These numbers are approximate, assume no Palestinian immigration into Israel and of course 2.3 kids to keep a population stable.

Cecilia Payne is very well known. And if her notoriety is limited to her field, it is because she comes from an era when men did the thinking and women only did the calculations and measurements. In some countries, women weren't even allowed to get higher degrees, and if they did, were only allowed to lecture. Emmy Noether of Germany comes to mind.

An electron is not the only quantum particle. Even if an electron's behaviour in the double slit experiment could be explaned by helical trajectories, how do you explain a photon's behaviour ?

I would have to agree with Bignose and Acme also, Enthalpy. The smooth back end of a car experiences large angle flow separation also, but, add a spoiler to induce turbulence, and drag is reduced. Vortex generators such as LERXs ( F-16 and F-18 ) or chines ( F-22, F-35 or even SR-71 ) serve to re-energize the flow over a wing at angles of incidence so as to discurage flow separation. The vortex flow is, in effect, a controlled turbulence.