Phi for All

I'm sure that Project Steve, while somewhat tongue in cheek, is interested in maintaining the highest credentials. Perhaps Mr. Branch suspects you are an infiltrating creationist whose goal is to undermine the... seriousness of the project. I'm curious as to what his reasons for rejecting you are. Is it strictly because of the abstract and your university?

No, I think you'd just like them to be. Couldn't be further from the truth. I think you're definitely misunderstanding me since all your rebuttals are aimed at a completely different argument. I stated that one problem might be having a hybrid that exhibited near-human intelligence and that I feel it's very likely "it" (or "they") would be exploited without granting them the kind of rights humans enjoy in a human society. You asked how it was different from breeding horses. I gave three differences, not "reasons". My argument against human / chimp crossbreeding is more of an ethical and legal one rather than a morality issue. We may learn a great deal from attempting it but breeding *anything* with humans and possibly creating something with sentience approaching our own opens up the possibility of extending human rights to them. And if they are performing near-human tasks without the benefit of those rights then I feel it's exploitative. "Plenty sentient" is not what I'm talking about, nor am I talking about chimps. I'm talking about a human / chimp hybrid that could possibly be much more than "plenty sentient".

"Just" found it and joined SFN to point that out? Get paid for Google hits do you? Post again to this thread and I'll take it all back.

Hand-waving. You asked how this was different from breeding horses and I gave you three differences. And the fact that we as humans can pose moral and ethical questions helps define those characteristics as being species-specific. With regards to determining rights which are inalienable to humans, chimps are still "alien". A hybrid may not be viewed as such. If it demonstrated cognitive speech would we view it as more human?

Three links to the same web page in a thread which invites no discussion. I smell agenda. The first couple of sentences are cut and paste from a report. Please cite your references if you're going to do that verbatim and as Bignose has pointed out it would be nice if we had some opinions from the OP that helped to shape a discussion.

Creationists are using a technique used by many industries these days. I don't know if it has an actual name yet, but the technique goes like this: set up an agency or an authority figure though third parties that seems removed from your agenda and then point to them for support. The major car insurance agencies set up just such a group to rate aftermarket car parts as an excuse not to use more expensive factory parts. They have this "independent" agency give the green light for cheaper parts and then say, "We abide by the rulings of the Certified Automotive Parts Association (CAPA) in determining if these parts are just as good as factory parts". I'm sure this author is very careful to avoid creationism. That way creationists can point to him as an independent source for undermining evolution. These authors are often self-styled "scientists" who have no agenda other than pointing out "the truth", usually with a minimum of actual science involved.

As a service to the membership I took the liberty of removing some confusing errors and all the condecension in the quote above without destroying content (hopefully). If this offends the OP I will remove it but I was caught between frustration with the phrasing and anger at being talked down to. Plus it always makes me defensive when someone is going to show me the truth if I will but look and listen. Man that pisses me off! And I agree with mak2, the paint analogy is an analogy only, not the "proof" you claim it to be. I'm still wrestling with the rest and trying to keep an open mind.

And you're repeating this because...? Couldn't you please explain that you are not suggesting an actual mating with a willing human female and a male chimpanzee? That is what's behind the legal ramifications that may get this entire thread shut down and locked away. Because we don't breed them with ourselves. Because intraspecies breeding isn't interspecies breeding. And finally because the result isn't likely to cause as much legal and moral grief as breeding something that might have partial claim to human rights. What do any of these strawmen have to do with breeding other animals with humans? Are you really equating constrained environments with breeding a human / chimpanzee hybrid?

In a Blue Mountains match, the batsman Tetrahedrite was out first ball. "Not like last week," said the wicket-keeper. "No," said Tetrahedrite. "Last week I stayed in and got forty and when I got back all the beer was gone!" When John Cuthber's wife was expecting, he rang the hospital to see how his wife was getting on. By mistake he dialed the number for Lord's Cricket Ground. "How's it going?" he asked. "Fine," came the answer, "We've got two out already and hope to have the rest out before lunch. The last one was a duck!"

They're definitely talking cricket. There is an ICC World Cup this year (could be every year, don't know, don't care). I blame ecoli for mentioning FIFA. I blame him for global warming and long lines at the supermarket too, but that would be off-topic.

There you go, it never happens. I just think it's weird that if a baseball team had an uber-version of Nolan Ryan who could throw no-hitters in half the games of the season, attendance at the stadium would probably drop due to sheer boredom. One of the few instances in professional sports where if you perform perfectly most people would be yawning. Can you imagine watching a game where one run is scored early on and the rest of the game is a battle between pitchers with no more hits? At least I'd get to leave earlier than I planned. Oh, btw, I'd bother to watch the World Cup if they were playing Brockian Ultra-Cricket.

Me too, but for a different reason. I think women in general see the big picture better and are better strategic thinkers. Men are better at tactics and focused performance. So forget having Sisyphus or YT2095 as Warlord. I think Kitty (YT's wife), my wife and Pangloss' wife should form a triumvirate and tell the men what needs to be accomplished (with our helpful suggestions, of course), then set the men loose to do what needs to be done.

One big problem is that no test for evidence to date has been repeatable. Many claim to have found supernatural evidence but no one has been able to duplicate the experiments which supposedly procured the evidence.

What is the "waste" that comes from touch? Dead skin cells? I love their new CD! The video is pretty gross, though.

On both sides? Ninety years ago there was supposedly a double no-hitter but I believe that was overthrown.

I'm officially asking you to please STOP using text-message abbreviations. This is not your phone or a messenger service and it's important to communicate your ideas and questions in a manner most will understand. This is for your benefit as well as ours. You will get more responses if people don't have to take so much time deciphering what you mean. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

I was just thinking about this the other day, but in my daydream I had won a lottery and had to figure out how to live the rest of my life on one lump sum. I think this scenario would be pretty much the same for me. I make a distinction between a "vacation" and a "trip". Vacations are for parking your butt somewhere beautiful and catching up on your reading without the stress of having to be somewhere doing something. Trips are for exploring, learning, sightseeing and education. I would immediately go on a three week vacation to St. Croix, followed by a trip to Europe (or possibly Turkey or Costa Rica). As for what I'd do instead of work a job, I would like to work with builders around the world to promote sustainable architecture and design. I would like to put together a team of engineers and architects to travel around the world implementing LEED certification (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) in countries that desperately need it. Alternative energy strategies are being funded massively in the Pacific Rim and right now they have more money than ideas so research and planning won't have to come out of my salary. I don't have to have a lot of material possessions. I think traveling more would actually force me to cut back on buying more stuff (best to travel light). If I'm spending less time at home then I don't need as much anyway. I would probably hire an au pair to school my daughter as we travel. I could probably find someone good who would be willing to take a minimal salary in exchange for room, board and travel expenses. Going back to school myself would have to wait since I need to save what I can for my daughter's college. I like that my retirement is taken care of but there are many expenses I'm sure I am forgetting.

Science and experimentation are the *only* reasons for doing something like this. We could learn tons of valuable information in many areas. And now we come to why this experiment would be wrong. Just because we *can* do something doesn't mean we *should*. One likely scenario would be the creation of a species that was halfway between humans and chimps in intelligence. How long would it take people to exploit that? Legally they wouldn't have human rights so they would make clever, strong slaves who were totally dependent on humans. That's just one scenario.

I could be wrong but LordMagnus mentioned centrifuges and test tubes. I think the bestiality forum reference was for finding a surrogate to bring the hybrid to term. I don't think he was talking about a physical mating to achieve his goal.

We've discussed this at length right here.

I don't watch any shows that celebrates idiocy (except a little C-Span now and then). I've never seen the show and I wouldn't watch the movies. I've seen enough stupid human tricks on You-tube and Ebaum's World to know there's a whole bunch of dumb out there. I worry about a future populated by people who are willing to completely suspend brain functions for a laugh or a buck. You do know that "Jackass" is a euphemism for "complete and utter idiot"? It has nothing to do with horses usually. I wonder if the SPCA has investigated this movie.

Don't some species of flies eat their way out of the mother to be born?

Baseball is a game where the best outcome is that your opponents never hit the ball. Spectators enjoy the game because this never happens.

Not for nuclear payloads but I believe they are used to launch satellites (at least the Russians do). And I think the whole world breathes a sigh of relief when scheduled launches actually do turn out to be for commercial purposes.

I think that's got to be one of the dumbest forums I've ever seen. Not the concept, the content. Page after page of, "You're an idiot!" "No, *you're* an idiot!" What a waste of bandwidth. And since Morbius joined just to tell us about it, I have to assume he's part of the idiocy and wants to promote the site. Misery loves company.