Phi for All

Too binary, and nebulous at the same time. Am I interfering with your freedom when I ask you to immunize yourself and your family so the rest of us don't catch a disease? Absolutely, but is it negative? Is this a burden I'm placing on you to protect society? Actually able to do... something? What is it you want the freedom to do that you don't have now that would be positive? Is it positive for most, or mostly you? I've seen this come up recently. You own a home next to other homes like it, in a neighborhood. You have a tree that you want to cut down on your property, and you want to save a ton of money by watching DIY videos and doing it yourself, but the neighbors interfere, claiming you need to hire professionals who know what they're doing and have insurance in case the tree falls badly. Between you and your neighbors, who is being positive and who is negative?

Your anecdotal evidence seems to run against what's been studied. Is that why you put this in The Lounge, so you could make stuff up? NBC NewsA stark social divide: Adults without college degrees mor...The share of people who report having no close friends has risen, particularly among those who didn't graduate from college — creating a divide in people’s levels of social connection.

Moderator NoteMoved from Suggestions, Comments and Support to Computer Help.

What do you have so far?

I don't like your argument. You claim you used to believe in evolution, yet you make a bunch of rookie mistakes about it. The BB theory says NOTHING about the beginning of the universe. The theory says nothing about a super-heated region (it was the entire universe at the time), the theory doesn't say anything exploded (it was a rapid expansion of all there is, not a expulsion into some other space). For me at least, it's all about what you believe. However, belief needs a basis. You base your belief on faith that the interpretations of your religion are accurate and unassailable. I base my belief on trust in the information we gain from using the scientific method to maintain objectivity. The BBT uses many different cosmological tools to derive the information about the evolution of the early universe, and it shows that when we wind the clock back, the early universe was extremely hot and dense. If you'd kept studying science, you'd have the tools to verify the information you're being asked to believe. You chose to believe someone's extremist interpretation of your religion, which probably requires a LOT less work and study, but it also means you gave up your thinking cap. Too bad.

IAMTHESUPREMEBEING9000000000 has been banned as a soapboxing troll with extra fingers in their ears.

Moderator NoteYou were given a chance to explain yourself to the members here, but you insist on this trollish style of insistence and soapboxing. It's plain you won't be convinced by any kind of reasoning, especially if you think maths is the right tool for this. You should be able to find another site to host your supremeness, just not here.

I'm most interested in seeing how this shift in priorities affects various endeavors. What happens when variety or high quality or freshness or healthiness in groceries is more important than profit? How will healthcare change if the patients aren't just a bank account to be drained? And most of all, will we start thinking further ahead now that younger people are filling these political offices instead of old farts who don't want change?

There can be no discussion until you support this assertion. Just saying your idea supersedes mainstream science isn't nearly enough. The science you're talking about has mountains of evidence to support it. What have you got to support your claims? Also, I'm not sure if you're just being defensive about your idea, but your approach to the subject is very confrontational and abusive. Is this because of pushback you've received in the past? Please get off that high horse and talk to us, try to persuade us that your idea is valid. No need for all the trollish behavior, we're willing to listen and critique objectively.

Moderator NoteIf you can't clarify what you want to discuss by posting/pasting your picture here, there's nothing to discuss. Last chance, um, you.

Our prisons provide slave labor for many corporations, and it's very convenient that we are a nation of high criminality who prize law and order, even when it's common knowledge that the vast majority are underpaid. I think many of the perceptions of freedom we have start with incarceration as the least free environment. Stay out of jail and you get straps for your boots that you can pull on to lift yourself up out of poverty.

So post it here. We don't trust that your link is healthy. If it's so easy, WHY DIDN'T YOU POST IT HERE?

And the murdering bastard had the audacity to hit SEND on the post. Pure evil.

It's one of those concepts that merits more than a single word, so people don't all come up with personal definitions. This is the part I think a whole bunch of people don't get. And I think this definition has been pushed on us to manipulate us. Big Business wants us to think our freedoms are being curtailed by the government so they can reduce the regulations imposed on them. Removing regulations gives these businesses the freedom to make more money. This is the part I question. Our vision of being free is actually living in a well-regulated society that respects rights and works for the betterment of all, while many see such regulation as shackles. Theirs is a definition of freedom that probably shouldn't exist because it's been falsely pushed on them.

Congratulations, Mayor Mamdani! It will be interesting to follow how this proposal develops. Most of what I've read is opposed to city-run groceries for capitalist reasons, which mostly seem like extreme wealth sneering at anything that threatens their investments. The only reasonable arguments in that vein are about the impact on small businesses and gig workers. The bodegas may end up as part of the taxpayer funding strategy, but gig workers are currently filling a void that hopefully won't exist soon. A more neutral and meaningful argument is the historic rate of failure such ventures have in larger cities. I hope Mamdani has studied what not to do in those instances. Getting the wealthy to pay for this should help. My state just passed a measure to feed public schoolchildren by taxing households making over US$300K.

In the US, at least, freedom has been dangled in front of its citizens as the pinnacle of the human condition, something we should all value highly and strive to find and protect. But the freedom to do whatever you want is ALWAYS balanced against the people around you, so that the smaller the group the more freedom it actually has. Larger groups have to compromise to accommodate everyone. Gathering into a society means less freedoms but far more opportunity. The structure of a society and the ways it curtails certain freedoms create even more opportunities for prosperity. Follow the rules on walking together in public and we'll build sidewalks. Agree not to pee on the sidewalks and we'll improve healthcare. Learn to live with reasonable restrictions and your government can design processes and programs that lift everyone up. Instead we're told the government is bad for requiring all these rules and regulations and taxing us to enforce them, and that we should instead vote to protect our freedom. The institution that could save us is painted as the cause of our problems. I think the wealthy are the ones interested in doing whatever they feel like doing, and the average citizen is better served by reasonable rules than the ability to do whatever they want.

There's a lot to criticize in places where leadership relies on terrorizing its own citizenry, but what is the solution? If authoritarianism brings out a sadistic streak in some, does bringing down a regime solve the problem? Is there a way to address the cynicism while the dictator is still in office?

Seems we're done here. Let's hope this isn't cyclical. Thread closed.

I don't find anything you've been arguing for compelling or interesting. There's nothing trustworthy about any of your assertions. You certainly haven't met any of the criteria the site has for supporting your speculative notion. Hand-waving isn't particularly persuasive.

Is this what you CHOSE to know? With our entire accumulated human knowledge, this is what you got? This is physically ridiculous. So which is it, the BB is a myth or your god did it? One thing: what if your assumptions about an infinite past are wrong? What if it's not a cycle, and this is the first go around for the universe? We can't possibly know that either, but I'm certain you will turn a guess about it into Truth.

This is what authoritarians do. I doubt it's part of Russian culture, any more than any other place where autocrats rule. The Roman Caesars hired goons to seek out instigators, and the propaganda at the time made it clear it was dangerous to be associated with these "undesirables".

bubbu has been banned as a sockpuppet of tim the scientist.

Moderator NoteCreating a sockpuppet account to discuss a topic with yourself is against our rules. I'm banning the new account. Ask yourself if you're here in good faith. Since the sock started this thread, it's closed.

Now I'm remembering the cowardice of the creationist extremists, who scream about things like this while NOT offering valid explanations of their own. The ones they offer up are tired and useless, having been debunked many moons ago. God seems to have designed their fingers to go in their ears. I'll confer with the other mods, but I find your lack of good faith disturbing.

If an idea warrants attack, is it really effective, or is it a poor idea? I'd like to point out your habit of seeing things that aren't there. Downvoting has its place when members aren't listening to criticism. It's only done by active members though, so I have NO idea where your paranoia is coming from. It's not based on facts. Sure. It must be all the forums, not you. We knew the potential, since you started out rejecting scientific methods, but it was always up to you to present reasoned explanations.