jackson33

if the universe is infinite, the theory might be true. with out an end to possibilities so to speak, would infer two of an item would have to be since the differences must have a limit. however the universe is in constant change, whether limited or not in size. the star, or foundation for matter as we know its lives X number of years, then dies, the leftovers in time form new matter. this limits the chances greatly, since this would drastically limit the thought possibilities. if you like, the then probability that another planet at some point in time and someplace in the universe could have been identical in every way, you may be correct, but its extremely unlikely that any two things at any given point are now identical....

talk about repetition in an argument. lets not discard the hysterical claims for cause and actions, which have no more than ten arguments, which require no more than ten decisive counter thoughts. i have no idea how many places and times i have seen the same charts, the same arguments, the same referance sites, the same names or organizations all saying the same thing. aside from this, just how many ways are there to say, man is not capable of being responsible for what nature does, cycles happen they have long before man existed and will probably even if one extreme takes out mankind. there are things that require what the complaints are and those things are just as much part of the total as man...

right now, i would think California and Florida/Georgia are the number one culprits. the reverse culprits or areas that do nothing to limit CO2, are all the deserts. the US, has millions of square miles in forest which you never hear about, as absorbing CO2...

Iraq, in short is a secondary issue to the area. disregard stability and you still have Iran, which would enjoy an influence over Iraq. my concern is not to the leaders of either, but the real influence, the clergy of the extreme elements. currently in Iraq they are losing influence, don't like it and aiding far beyond credit given. i would almost say the heads of a couple nations and all the extreme groups, check with this clergy, not the political leader, before doing anything.... then i have to mention Israel; they are going to pre-empt anything that threatens there security. with the failure in Lebanon, i worry that they may not succeed with all Iran can and will provide others today. this scenario leads to total disruption of oil supplies and the chain reaction to the economy and a real war. Iraq is an interest, but not cause for our efforts, in total. it must be hard to understand, since in the US, we do have at least some separation of church and state. the heads of the a few major religious groups can influence their flocks, even some can threaten industry (Sharpton), but the checks and balance system is still working and our destiny or notion of an afterlife does not require bad deads....

interesting point; i avoided naming, J. Edgar Hoover, when referencing what we need not know about and you bring up Mark Felt. if there ever was any one person on this planet that could keep a secret it was Hoover. he died May 2, 1972. business as usual stopped for much of Washington. Felt was overlooked and kind of a flunky as Hoovers second in command. Bob Woodward first denied his declaration and G. Gordan said "it was not true". the break in for political reason was done on June 17, 1972. IMO we would never have known anything about the entire subject, had Hoover lived...if you want to build on conspiracy in this case, keep Hillary Clinton in mind. she did play a small roll....or was it small???

there are many sources, indicating ice melting is very slow in the north and non-existent in the south. as for salinity and fresh water introducing to the oceans, man has blocked run off water from the continents at ever increasing rates. the US alone has done so to a said 65% or so efficiency. that a mighty big chuck of water. i would concede rain water into the oceans from storms could make a difference. there also seems to be no natural response in nature or that it could not react to lack of salt, opposed to reactions to heat.

in the operation of governing, many things go on, which we the people should not be aware of for reasons of stability to the whole and to maintain the senses of well being. to what extent i would rather not speculate. however as G. Gordan Liddy has said, "the only way three people can keep a secret, is when two are dead". conspiracy theories, from Lincoln to FDR and Pearl Harbor, Spaceships in NM, JFK, Dianna and all the rest make interesting reads and generate millions for the people so inclined to further this interest. no doubt some things per change could be correct, but the interesting question would be, what difference would it make? JFK was an inspiring figure for some reason to many people. Youth, good looking, articulate and all the things people mistakenly look for in a leader. Johnson, would have been correct and his chances to become president would have been over, if JFK had lived. just as true Nixon, may not have made a comeback. remember JFK, was for all practical purposes today Conservative Republican and Johnson the father of todays welfare systems.

Foodchain; i also respect the fact you volunteered to serve in the US Military. you, your fellow guardsmen/women, all the elected officials, appointees to office, the VP and the President of the US have taken an oath. no where in that oath is a choice given and there are direct implications to a chain in command. likewise there is a procedure to follow to complain or make accusations opposing your leaders. i do sincerely hope your words are not in fear of personal harm, because my son or daughter may need your assistance in the future. as for getting out of Iraq; when the government of Iraq is stable, either from the perspective of the Iraq government or the field commanders we will leave the country, in a slow meticulous way. as in Korea, Japan, Germany, France or a number of places assistance was needed to stabilize we did so w/o a time limit. the reason we are in Iraq, is called a *War on Terror*. i prefer calling it a war on Islamic Extremist, but the fact is whatever its called its not over. we help in the stabilization of many countries in the area and by treaty would be obligated to come to their defense. to pull out for any reason, your opinion or that of most of the Democratic lead Congress and allow the AREA to become unstable is not an option. like it or not, the American people, do not want defeat. we are a little to bright and understand the problems which exist have to be addressed. if posed with the question, (would you like to see our troops come home?), which is the question offered, yes they would like that just as i would, but when the job is done. i do hope the final two or three that make the November 07, election do state their exact intent if elected. no questionable well this or that but the exact intent and based on exact meanings.

Congress, in playing politics and sending restrictive bills and the Executive Branch in the veto for known reasons, both know these armors are being produced and shipped. the capitalist system, in the US is also realistic. they would produce the products even if they felt payments were years off. understand, that in an effort to gain power, makes these folks no less American. in fact its these efforts which are sometimes mis-understood is the pure practice of our system, which we have fought for...if there is a time when the differences are real in content, it will over domestic issues.

as i said and still feel, i wouldn't think that is a problem...still don't, but thanks for your source.

the war to topple the Saddam government, with the reason to enforce UN mandates took a couple weeks. since then its turned to war on terror...or as some suggest a peace keeping mission. drinking water, i would think is no longer a problem in all the Mid-East, which it has been forever. General Electric, is producing billions of gallons of fresh water from sea water, in the area. additionally, there are already hundreds of humanitarian organization inside Iraq to see these things do not happen. it has been reduced somewhat, since terrorist went after them for awhile but the public pretty well put an end to that... waste purification, a new process for Iraq has been building in additional water sources for industrial usage.

whether or not its liked, the US and coalition are fighting for the stabilization of an oil rich area, which the world requires and the radical Islam ideology. as for liberal media and the liberal factions of the Democratic Party, which is most, are and have been fighting to regain power. success was achieved by taking of both the house and senate and now the concentration is on the White House. as for more troops, less or the conditions of the equipment, the probability is the ground commanders receive all they request. any request however in some cases may take time. no plant or factory has been refitted to military needs, as the US economy rolls on into the record books. as to Civil War in Iraq, you might find outside forces which should be inclined to side with their philosophy are in fact killing there own. unfortunately gain are made by these folks in the media war, just by killing people.

if billion, maybe yes; however a million years is a fraction (55 Million) which mammals have existed, even man. surely the basic content have moved in favor of life forms of today but probably no major changes...

Luke; really don't understand the logic. the net jobs requiring educations have dropped so much in recent years it hard to figure. something like 30 million jobs have been transported abroad or done by migrant workers. technology and related fields in science, along with even employment by many and certainly advancements require college degrees, in all industry, sales or service oriented operations. i would agree this degree has been deluded to an equivalent of 1960's high school level, but people involved in a field tend to go on learning in that field well into life. near 50% of HS graduates go on to higher education in some manner. here you might suggest to many drop from HS, which i cannot argue. all in all, i still feel the person is responsible for his/her education. HS drop outs can change attitude, often do and go on to great careers. there is an impressive list for such people, many on the Forbes Best, Richest list or head major companies today or in the past. on the other side, there is a growing divide, between educated and non educated folks in the US. the service industry however picks up the bulk of these folks, giving time for them to change attitudes. if 30-40 and still bagging groceries or on some government program the problems generally lay on government, parenting and/or lack of responsibility.

i have no idea how many in meteorology, at the highest levels, have said GW as a man made event is not accurate. this field deals in short cycles, and these folks understand the system. also, why argue the point. nothing is going to change dramatically. most anything that will are not in the end bad. sooner or later, oil will become expensive, reductions in CO2 to the human is not bad and above all anything that makes any nation less reliant on another will lower tension levels. governments can collect there taxes on new products to replace old ones and business in general will go on....even better. people keep moving to Florida or on a coast line and build the house of their dreams. after all the people that predict the worst for the rest are in fact the worst examples in the philosophy they express. also, it is creating interest of the public in all aspects of life. nothing bad here either. personally i would rather see the educational system get out of hypothetical problems, since in my case and many other it has been the kid yelling wolf several time too many. in my case, we don't live in dome cities, my car doesn't fly, people can exist if past 3 billion in total, coffee didn't kill me, i have plenty of food, no telling how many things cause untold problems-haven't happened and it looks like I'll die on schedule. real problems, like people killing people, auto deaths and bad parenting, excessive religious beliefs and impositions are all things never talked about.

KLB; i wouldn't worry to much about oxygen, as its the most abundant thing found on the planet. although 22% of the atmosphere, its found in all things and actually represents 46.6%. the next thing is silicon at 27.6. this according to *amistupid.con* on a google check some time ago. what is interesting Carbon is listed as a "other" which makes up in total 1.4% of the total. carbon, is however a stored element of all plant life and found on many materials. in the process of creating energy, the removal of that carbon is produced by heat which requires 2 molecules of oxygen to produce that CO2. in burning a tree, coal or any fossil fuel, but the oxygen in that item also is involved or released. now, photosynthesis is the reverse process, taking 6 molecules of H2O or water and six of the CO2, splitting carbon, for storage or its use as stored carbon, producing one molecule of sugar or for the plant or fruit of the plant and releases 6 molecules of oxygen. since oxygen is so prevalent in nature, i am not sure its mathematically possible to figure out the end results of one process to the other. however trees, especially the large ones, store or hold this carbon for very long periods. think its said there is 600 billion tons of carbon now in storage, which is trivial to the tons stored in the oceans with are use by sea life. my argument opposed to trying a world wide attempt to reduce for natural causes anything is in the levels of CO2, which is the food for the equilibrium of oxygen producing plant life, which relies on those few particles which are needed to maintain the storage. the storage is to plants is the abundance of oxygen that exist for us. plants or nature, with a shortage will just cause plants to die off and furnish its own CO2, by the decaying process. if there is a point in this seemingly rant; nature itself, has a means to correct and re-correct conditions to the current state. the over all state of no importance, as we exist from eons of slow change, at least to nature.

just a little side note on personal contributions; maybe i have known 20-25 people who have bought hybrid auto's and a few more a little bitty car to conserve fuel. the one question i have always asked and in this manner... then of course you took your old car and junked it??? NOT one has ever said yes. then i wonder why your new car and the amounts of GW elements it produces, in addition to what your old car still is producing, has reduced anything???

entities will always take an issue, to progress there own interest. GW, is the current best means to do these things as it has stimulated the interest of the generations which are just beginning to influence society. governments, are using the issue, to created taxes or promote philosophies to attain the monies or power it can generate. keep in mind economies are based on activity as well, which any change in the consumers buying patterns mean more purchases and in this case high priced items. sales tax, far off set the cost the lost sales of the few items, which will go down in sales for lack of efficiency. in the past, toilets, A/C systems, and every appliance produced has benefited from hysteria over the previous system. many folks on this band wagon, and the band wagon theory does apply, are doing so for purpose. local elections, even some sates are decided on single issues. the issues are usually from what local media claims the most vital to that area. currently, the economy or usual topic for determining an outcome is of no value or interest to people. they are for the most part doing just fine and suggesting they are not, has failed. business and corporation, require sales and/or service customers. Waste Management facilities have generated problems and solutions which have made fortunes off the back of the unsuspecting public. lead paint, asbestos and polluted areas, just a few. movies or media, has changed society on a dime. the US, well on its way to a clean and efficient energy source (nuclear) was stopped dead in its track in part from one movie. GW is just the current issue, which can be attacked w/o causing lost creditability in other issue. many folks simply do not like progress, capitalism, wealth or achievement. these things can't be attacked in an educated society. most people want all those things and their interest would be lost. So to attack the foundation which these things currently based on, cheap energy, in indirectly focused on them through GW.....IMO

i have all kinds of problem with the suggested CO2 levels over time in accordance to the above charts, primarily since most i have seen, show much higher levels during or before ice ages, than todays. however, as to the total of atmosphere, the increase suggested from 280 to 380 ppm, is equal to an increase of .000001% of the total. if you increase a total of 1 by one you indicate a 100% increase, but increasing 280ppm by 100or to 380ppm, it is meaningless. more likely than not this increase does not reflect the increased plant life alone which has certainly increased. you might conclude that mankind has increased this plant life, indeed it has, but what is put out by fossil fuels burning is trivial. no one, i know of as mentioned the steady state of oxygen which has been constant for a very long time and is used to produce CO2, in decay, burning and breaking process among other. since plant life is the prime source for oxygen i have to assume this item has performed the equalization for nature or done well....

frankly, i like the attitude. in the process of learning a little bit about all in science you would understand the connections between the fields and no doubt a few would become you specialty. i would suggest a career in education, based on the levels you achieve in schooling. you may even get rich, make a name for yourself, write the inspiring book OR you may just work hard and give your learned knowledge to a few thousand others, hopefully with that learn it all attitude...

16-18-21 are guide lines for society to as a whole to judge maturity to do certain legal things. there are limits on the other or elderly end as well. the problem is people do not mature or age as others with in the society. as for actually voting, take your age down to ten and you will simply add to the parent or parents vote. even later this is true and in many cases this goes on through a life time.

enc. wik; gives .046 as the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and several sources claim mans contributions are 5% of this total. i did multiply in error to get .0023, when i should have divided .046 by .05 which is .0092. there are estimates of mans contributions down to 3% or up to 6% and totals in the atmosphere of CO2 down to .03 % and up to .06% of the total. in all cases however there figures start with 1% which is not 77% nitrogen and 22% oxygen, which they seem to all agree on. regardless of the figures involved, they are generally refereed to as trace amounts.

remember that .0023, is the total of mankind's efforts in the air at any one point also natures .046...methane and CO2, degrade over time if not used or processed by plant life. they are not natural elements. a very large % of the worlds 1935-45 total arsenal, was used or exploded during WWII. although not what is now available the explosive poundage power was very large. there are estimates on the end results of your thought and the aftermath, but all life would not cease (tho greatly reduced) under any scenario. the problems for life are primarily in the aftermath and disruptions caused in every aspect of todays life. However, were talking about natural daily lives of the human species on the planet and its effect on the climates and weather patterns. under these conditions, even with increased populations, my contention is the natural actions with-in nature take of of the equalization of effects. the major changes in conditions occurred 240 million years ago, 800 MYA and several times in theory before. however since about 55-65MYA, the planet has been stable to a degree to allow what we have today, all by this natural reaction between the oxygen and CO2 breathing life, which generates those weather and climate conditions. like it or not, arrogance or not, we are simply part of the total. there is no indication our existence has changed anything or that any thing we do will alter any outcome. if anything and a real problem in my mind is an over reaction. if every human went out today, planted a thousand trees and much of our minor CO2 production was stopped, at some point in the future the effects will be adjusted to by nature. these may not be in the interest of man. there is no promise of CO2, to plant life. as humans we have a 22% supply, going no where. plant life in total poundage, at least three four times all animal life and thousands of times mankind's, has a .04 to .05 %, which is degraded if not used, to draw on...the worriers are concerned about the wrong thing if a worry is required.....IMO.

Iveedo; i did read post 13, thought about a reply, but thought you were kidding. the very chart below you post shows the counts of CO2, back a million years has not significantly changed. then mans contributions on an insignificant amount, which it is, is just as insignificant. as to St. Helen's; CO2 is produced from effects on oxygen produced by heat. all that ash, you blanket, produce unmeasurable amounts of CO2 particles, from oxygen which did not fall with the ash. additionally all that dead matter for those hundred miles is all direction began the decay process, which by the way the process is natures No. 1 method of creating CO2, sending CO2 into the air. the actual blow off the top of a mountain, meant little.

KLB; i have made many changes in my life, for the benefit of my descendants. to deny what my ancestors did for my life, as an American, would be as wrong to them as not doing for mine. my stance is based on these principles, and as the world becomes an economic success for all humanity, most the of my ancestor or my problems will cease to be. what GW and the advocates request is to turn back the clock, stop being productive, drive one vehicle, take out competition, produce what i say is good, don't smoke, don't create, don't do this and that because, I DON'T LIKE IT. base your argument on dependency, creating efficiency, more wealth for the people of the planet and allowing progress then I'll lead the way. but, don't base it on some non-existed need to be in a party, a tree hugger or some ideology which promotes doing away, all my ancestors gave me or what i intend to leave mine.