Jump to content


Senior Members
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by MSC

  1. What were the alleged falsehoods again? That the scottish education system runs at zero cost for the student? I didn't say it runs at zero cost all in. Someone has to pay for it, it just isn't typically the student. Which was the nuance in my original comments. What other falsehoods are you alleging? As for the slapping you with a wet fish, I'm sorry, I had just read that eugenics comment from another user and it made my blood boil. Not your fault at all. Growth and proficiency is a really interesting debate and is key to education. Growth Vs Proficiency This link g
  2. Once the eugenicist has been banned, I'll return and continue these conversations. As it is, I can't take being here anymore. No you did, but then half of my responses and questions have been blatantly ignored and I really cannot be bothered with tackling your false equivalencies. Nobody has even touched upon proficiency and growth models, nobody wants to discuss school systems other than the US. Therefore this conversation is a waste of my time. But as always, I'm worse than the eugenics advocate right? Bye. Thank you to everyone who did take this conversation seriously.
  3. Or you should work on explaining things better. If I misunderstood it was because you were unclear. I'm not an expert in Gauchers disease nor did I claim to be. I don't even know if you are or if you're using the disease to fit some agenda you have. However you're conflating academic achievement with organism success and making moral conclusions that this must in some ways dictate who even gets to have their academic success measured to begin with in order to determine who academically achieves the most. Be clearer, what moral claims are you making here? Judging others on whether or
  4. Prove it's a possibility, then prove it's a reality. You've done neither. That's one of the things it's about at least. Not Venus Princesses use of one particular disease to infer a reduction in moral value of Ashkenazi jews, based on their propensity to have a certain disease and then calling that ridiculous claim 'a brutal reality'.
  5. Your focus on using difference as a justification for an unfair status quo between peoples, misses the point of what ethics is about. I also don't think you truly understand the idea of neurological diversity. It sounds to me like you're saying, whoever comes out on top must just be neurologically superior, if it happens to be white rich people, they are obviously superior. Not accounting for force, subversion, intimidation or violence at all. Not accounting for neurological differences between every individual and it being constantly evolving and changing based on environment. Last comme
  6. It mentioned race and color. Black being a race and a color. You're coming off as pedantic and nitpicky a little. The point is, XIII is the legislation that freed black slaves. Due to the historical fact of the time that only black people were legally kept as slaves in the US, not whites. XV then references race in relation to prior conditions of servitude, because historically at the time, the ex slaves, were black. What point are you trying to make to me? That the legislation made all slavery illegal broadly? I know, hence why I said the EP and amendment XIII did not contain explicit l
  7. No, it does not. The XV amendment was the first to explicitly mention slavery and race in the same amendment, the connection I was referring to. The XIII does not mention race at all. The Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the USA. The XIII Amendment did. Here is the text for that: No mention of race until the 15th amendment. So I don't understand your criticism. But hey, maybe you can find a mention of race within the original EP document? Here it is.
  8. I agree that the emancipation proclamation did not identify blacks. However, the XV amendment does. This is just one example of an amendment that specifically mentions race in relation to a previous condition of servitude. The XIII amendment also gives congress the power to enforce the article, which led to the later legislation of XV. It's also important to note, that just because XIII does not state "black slaves" it does not change the fact that in the USA there was no legal trade of white slaves. Therefore XIII was the counter to the legal slave trade within the US, wh
  9. I get what you mean though. I'm a smoker and my biggest critics of that do tend to be past smokers. When I do eventually manage to quit I can see myself becoming critical of smokers more although I'll try to be constructively critical about it. Until I actually give up though I'd still not try to deter someone else trying to quit. As I have attempted to give it up, I've found that a relapse leads to a lot of negative self-criticism and shame. Which usually leads to a longer attempt next time. I'm aware of the lack of studies, which is why we are confined to the realm of hypothesis for no
  10. I agree completely. Ultimately the antagonist should be facing the most blame and fault. In a world where everyone is law abiding, it wouldn't matter how dumb you are, you should be able to walk through a park at 3am without being attacked. Although I suppose, in a world like that, we'd never call that a dumb thing to do in the first place. In the area of self-experience, do you think it is possible that some who blame the victim, do so because they also blame themselves for their own victimisation in the past? Let's say a person blames themselves for being abused as a child, is there
  11. I'd like to hear an answer to this question too. It seems like MigL is making a deontological claim that the consequences of racism and affirmative action do not matter in determining whether or not taking certain aspects of a persons background into consideration is wrong. Basing a decision on a single factor is always bad, no matter the outcome, seems to be the claim. However we can make the same claims about only taking into account grades since they can in some respects be more of an abstraction for income disparities. In comparison, the consensus amongst others is based on con
  12. So in what way is it wrong that I said "over the last few decades"? Are you not being a bit overly pedantic? I am aware that this is a science site, however this is also within the ethics section of that site. If I am limited to only discussing science, moral psychology aside, then you're effectively asking me to put a muzzle on certain meta-ethical modalities and methodologies. I am a cosmopolitan ethicist. That requires expansive use of logic in order to relay myself as clearly as I can. However I suffer from diarrhea of the mouth at times so probably don't do myself any favours when I
  13. A fair observation and I don't want to mislead people about how education works in Scotland and how it is different from England. The devolution of powers from Westminster to Hollyrood (The Scottish Parliament) powers over how education works in Scotland. In the past few decades, this has led to many rapid and different changes in law and policy. Up to and including numerous changes to grading, certification and unit names. These rapid changes left many of my generation in the middle of some of the most confusing and at times blatantly experimental education decisions. For starters, it was dec
  14. Also, I'm sorry I upset you MigL. I had just woken up and had not had my coffee yet. I could have been far more diplomatic.
  15. I did not intend for what I said to be a straight up accusation, but a suggestion that you aren't using language effectively enough to portray what I'm sure to you feels like a good point to raise. I'm not directly attacking what you say, I'm assuming you are indeed arguing in good faith but that explaining what we are misunderstanding about your points thus far are probably creating more misunderstandings. Ethical debates are not easy, it's important to understand that it may seem like we are both only taking snippets of what the other is saying and ignoring the rest. In your defense I
  16. No, I'm describing holistic review and how affirmative action works. I'm falling into no trap. However your definition of racism and prejudice seem to be becoming a bit of a logic trap for you. You were the one who mentioned an imaginary scenario between two similar students who's only difference was race, I'm simply telling you that no such students exist because of the amount of things that are looked at in a holistic review admissions process. Well then if it's only to be based on academic standing, then that puts the advantage squarely back into the hands of the wealthy. Since they ge
  17. Got into a debate with someone who keeps saying things like "Everyone has a problem with being a victim now." "People with mental health problems who aren't seeking treatment are bad." "There are plenty of charities that provide mental health care so there is really no excuse for a narcissist to not be in therapy." When asked to explain exactly what they mean by these statements and asked why they were not gross generalisations, they say they are only talking about America. Yet as I'm from another country and am a cosmopolitan, when someone says everybody, they mean everyone everywhere.
  18. I do understand what you are saying, although while you are driving, the best solution to drive straight, is to compensate to the left. You can't realign the vehicle while it is moving. It's important to understand though that ultimately affirmative action is a policy that competitive schools have to utilise in some form in order to be operating within thr confines of the US constitution. The history of affirmative action is not static and neither is the form of the policy. Since the affirmative action executive order was enacted by the Kennedy administration, in regards to the workplace
  19. Even an evolutionary trait can turn out to be maladaptive or it can become that way due to other changes. Evolution is random, it's not the case that every evolution must in some way be or always be beneficial to the lifeform that evolves thar trait. You're also portraying the objective identification of biological differences as racism. Which it isn't. As an example, it wouldn't be racist of me to point out that black people are more at risk of developing sickle cell anaemia than white people, this is true. The racism would come into it if I then claimed this propensity to have an incre
  20. The day I first started commenting here was probably when it started! Thank you though. You don't give out compliments often, so I do appreciate it quite a bit.
  21. Can I take offense to that? I'm in that last demographic. I don't feel offended at all really, but reductio ad absurdum is fun. That's exactly the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from one of you Z people, he said in mock offense. Yet actions are also based on morality. I'm glad you brought up antagonism. Let's say the killing of George Floyd was an antagonistic act, which it probably was whether racist intent comes into play or not. Were the protests and at times riots that happened afterward also antagonistic or were they reactionary to a prior antagonism?
  22. How many different barriers have we discussed now? A fair few it seems. How do people feel about the growth models of Scandinavian schools vs the proficiency models in the US and UK? As just a few examples as I'm less familiar with the systems of other places, although I can also teach a little bit about the history of the development of primary education in New Lanark a few centuries ago. This question is more about the underlying philosophies of education, the modal form they take and the pros and cons of the differing approaches. Just thought I'd tag to ask if you've eve
  23. That is included in my definition of justice, as justice has to be restorative and reformative. The debates on the form justice, makes education part of the process and includes it in the conversation. I agree with you though, education should be at the forefront of justice. Where do you think deterrence comes into play though? You can educate the discriminating party, but that might not be enough to solve the problem of deterring the discriminating behaviour from happening again. They are not viewed that way by me. That being said I should have made it clear that Asians against
  24. I'm certainly not and I don't know anyone who uses equality to argue that we should all be in equal amounts of poverty to each other. I think what MigL is trying to suggest, is that affirmative action in schools is also a barrier to equal opportunity in education. However, when you dig into the claims of parents who believe their children lost a place at Harvard because a "less deserving" took it from them, you find out that it's mostly would be legacy students who did not get in because they were not up to the standard that their parents were when it came to merit. Others are just paren
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.