MSC

Have you ever actually owned a dog or a pet at all? So just making sure that an animal around today, is not around tomorrow, whether culling or antinatalism, it's genocide. I don't plan on changing that definition to suit you. Honestly I'm shocked that nobody here is actually taking up the actual discussion and y'all are getting obsessed over shit I haven't fucking said. Just fuck off the lot of you, if you don't have anything to say about the subject then stfu and keep your thoughts to yourself. I think it's great that you want to just get rid of all the "biologically inferior" animals and somehow mental gymnastics your way into not calling it genocide. Seriously go fuck yourself exchemist. Yeah guys let's just leave animals with health issues, with those health issues that we have them better to throw them all away like trash and pretend like nothing happened right, or better yet just remove them from the population. Death to all bulldogs am I right? Let's focus on fake wolves and debate on what to call them. Clearly using genetic modification for veterinary science is just a fucked up crazy idea. Give me a fucking break.

Also I hate the new UI. Can't control or edit anywhere near as well Fuck it I need a break from this forum for awhile.

I haven't forbid anything? I'm saying this has happened, whether forbidden or not these are consequences of ours dogs have to live with. A class of individuals is still made up of living things and your definition of genocide is very narrow and is at odds with the actual definition of genocide which also includes reducing a population via culling. Not sure what is difficult to grasp about this but I'm going to cut it short here because I feel like y'all aren't reading for comprehension and are misunderstanding me at every point. Clearly nobody is ready to have these discussions when they can't even read me for comprehension. Ffs. Also if people are going to go to all the trouble of wasting resources to half ass edit genomes, why not do it for better reasons than calling a genetically modified grey wolf, a Dire-wolf? Also how the fuck are you guys reading me so wrong? I even said this "the case of the Dire-wolf; while bringing back an extinct animal (or at least a reemergence of some of it's genetic coding in a new animal" because I knew there would be a language criticism about even using the world dire wolf. Quite frankly it seems like I've wasted my time with this topic since nobody is actually engaging with it properly. Ignore quote below was a mistake. Just don't waste my time with not even reading what I'm really saying and putting shit in my mouth, not in the fucking mood.

Let's assume people won't stop breeding them, because that's likely what will not happen. We can also recognize that this is a individualistic determination and you'll hardly be able to convince a dog owner, to put down a dog with breed specific respiratory issues that don't stop it from being able to live but do impact on its quality of life. I'd also add that the very sentiment of "just stop breeding it" like it's a line of car in need of a recall, is the same anthropocentric objectification that led us to selectively breed for cosmetic reasons, against the animals health interests. It's still a living being, one that we fucked up, I don't think genocide is a good answer.

It's probably not coming across clearly enough but the dire wolf being extinct, is not one of the wrongs I was referencing and I gave other examples in my OP nor did I say we caused said extinction through industrial or other means. Never said it, don't think it.

Thanks for that bit of context, it can be so hard to tell who operates these projects or why; even to this day I keep finding myself shocked at just how many South African Nazi descendants are involved with the US government. That said; the meat of the discussion shouldn't be thrown out because I was unaware of the political ideology of the people behind the creation of these modified wolves. My main points about genetic modification being used as a remedy to the mistakes of selective breeding still warrant sincere discussion and the reason I posted this in the ethics section was because to me there was a non-political discussion about the subject to be had. My argument is simply that we have been careless and exploitative and so have a duty to remedy certain wrongs. I think we both agree that careless reintroduction of certain species into the wild isn't a particular good motive for genetically modifying anything. Improving the quality of life of animals we have kind of fucked over however, that I think has some merit.

USA TODAYThe dire wolf went extinct 13,000 years ago. What to know...A biotech company made history with the birth of three genetically engineered wolves: What we know about these prehistoric predators.Like most genies once let out of the bottle, it's very hard to get them back in again. Such has become the case with gene editing and bioengineering. With this in mind, our questions may start to move more towards asking when and where is it acceptable to modify genes or bring back extinct life-forms? Instead of, whether it is acceptable at all to engage in the practices at all? In the case of the Dire-wolf; while bringing back an extinct animal (or at least a reemergence of some of it's genetic coding in a new animal) is an impressive feat of bioengineering we ought also to ask of ourselves, how much responsibility do we have towards an animal we've created and shaped, through either direct genetic engineering and manipulation or selective breeding, in comparison with other animals whose evolution we have unintentionally shaped due to our mastery of the world landscapes? As it stands, even endangered species of modern wolves face hurdles to reintroduction to wild spaces due to public and livestock safety concerns, other conservations efforts and the risk of accidentally destroying an environment by introducing an invasive or detrimental species. Since people are still asking the questions like "Should wolves be reintroduced to X region?" How much more complicated will the debate become when you ask whether or not, bigger, stronger, genetically modified wolves should be newly introduced to anywhere? The reason I brought up selective breeding earlier, is because for a lack of a better way of putting it, we have made so many mistakes and unintentional harms in this area, that we need to ask whether or not we owe our domesticated animals restorative bioengineering in order to rectify those wrongs? Have you ever heard the sound a bulldog makes when it is struggling to breathe? So you know when it is struggling to breathe? Pretty much all the time. Due to selective breeding for shorter and shorter snouts, over time the bulldogs airways have become more and more constricted, that doesn't even begin to get into the topic of forced inbreeding and the impact that has had on many different breeds of dog. One domestic animal that has been almost completely shut out in the cold are all the different varieties of domesticated pigeon. I've lost track of the amount of times I've heard them described as sky rats, and I can't help but wonder whether or not we would completely abandon domesticated dogs and cats if we found a satisfactory technological replacement for either the work they do or companionship they provide? There are also less intentional ways our domesticated animals could be abandoned. Like most living beings, we are still fragile and at the mercy of both regional and planetary extinction events through natural and manmade disasters. How would these animals survive in a world without us? Some may find niches or environments to thrive in, others may not be so lucky. I certainly can't see a bulldog being a very effective hunter in the wild. Underlying all of this are hard to answer questions about where we draw the line when it comes to genetic modification. We could use it to better our lives, reverse mistakes etc but who makes those decisions? There are also many many ways in which genetic modification could be used to wreak havoc on ourselves, provide more options for violent regimes to oppress us, etc. I am very interested to hear what people's thoughts on all this are. I do think a feat like bringing back dire wolves is cool and fully lays out some inspiration for beneficial uses of the technology. Of that there can be little doubt.

You can't see me, but I'm the fully dressed European with a tricorder at the back, behind young Gandalf. I'm wearing my command red Starfleet uniform to highlight what the contrast actually feels like. It's all so stressingly fascinating, in a terrifying way.

Shoot I'm on a trial and didn't even realize it was paywalled! That's my bad. Be right back

We have had a lot of discussions about different topics surrounding executive authority and and attempts to subvert democracy to assume complete power. The AtlanticTrump Is Already Undermining the Next ElectionAnd the one after that, and the one after that.Let's start with election integrity. As it stands, orange Voldemort with a nose (OVWAN) is attempting to exert undue control over the electoral process, something presidents aren't supposed to have any involvement in, outside of their own reelection campaigns. Taking control of elections or de facto destroying them, is a key step a would be dictator has to take in order to provide longevity to their regimes. The article I shared touches on a few topics within potential threats to elections, one it hasn't addressed is the federal governments funding powers when it comes to states running their election processes. Specifically security funding. One of the weapons in Dump's arsenal is the two tiered justice system that will actively target anti-MAGA sentiment while ignoring the intimation, coercion and violence employed by his enabled MAGA moron followers. A failure of security during either the 2026 midterms or the 2028 could be catastrophic. While the ballots still remain closed, a dangerous obstacle course is being prepared to a would be voter in even making it there, unscathed. As the article details, there are congressional and executive attempts to disenfranchise as many voters as possible. Birth certificate verification may be tossed out the window. This will impact the votes of working class voters, minorities, married women and those who happen to not be medically fit to drive and have not traveled abroad. I think it is safe to assume, whether legal or not, there will be a 25th amendment attempt by the Republican candidate to pass the torch back to Trump, assuming the candidate in question isn't going to make their own power grab against Trump if they win the next presidential election, if they can even lose said election should OVWAN successfully rig it.

Ahhh see now I thought it was because the checks were going to be delivered by car but they were out of break light fluid? And I don't know if it was ironic or just very very accurate and I guess we just have to ask him if he thinks they've now gone completely extinct! Unless they've flipped the script and are now just being conservative with morality in general.

Not something you'd say if you'd ever had a drink with me 😂 That could be fun though, an SFN zoom call casual drinking meet n greet. BuzzFeed18 Screenshots Showing MAGA Supporters Turning On Trump A..."You decimated middle class retirement funds with this trade war. I cannot support you any longer. You crushed my ability to retire."But here is something that will make you life. All these Dump supporters realizing we were right all along! He doesn't care about the middle class? Gee, I wonder what gave them that impression...

Or trying to measure the temperature on your forehead by calculating your distance from Sagittarius A. In other news, it would appear that Trump is blinking on the tariffs, except with China. For some reason investors are already breathing signs of relief and the market is already rebounding, even though the uncertainty producing clown who started it all, on a fucking whim, is still in the white house. AP NewsWall Street poised to give back some of the historic gain...Japan’s benchmark Nikkei 225 jumped 8.3% in morning trading to 34,353.17, zooming upward as soon as trading began. Australia’s S&P/ASX 200 soared 4.71%.

One of the metrics would be players in the game. Scale here is more to do with how many opponents have been picked out over how much actual trade is going on.

How would it be user error if the option to "quote selection"isn't even available to me, was kind of hard to miss before. That would be a mobile interface error. Just saying. Also whatever part you were trying to quote when you referenced the great depression, didn't show up either. Just looks like empty quotes. I do use mobile for this though and so have come to expect limited functionality in general as a rule wherever I am on the Internet. Not something I'm really sweating, just flagging for admin to be aware of should it be fixable. Thankfully the administration here is miles better than whatever mess you call the US government now. That doesn't even resemble coherent administration.

I'm of the opinion that with a moron at the wheel, a shameless self serving opportunist will become a manipulative backseat driver until they are ready to take control for themselves. Sidenote; it wouldn't let me quote just a selection of what you said like it did before the migration. I had to quote all and trim it down. One thing I don't know is if there have ever been any global Trade wars that had a similar scale to this massive one Trump is starting now. There is a videogame I enjoy playing, it's called Mount and Blade II: Bannerlord. The reason I bring it up is that I'm currently on a playthrough where I decided to wage solo warfare on a kingdom that is rich, massive and geographically isolated in comparison with the other factions. One exploit you can do, prior to having your own kingdom, is join any of the factions as a mercenary and then attack other factions, in the host factions name. So I joined the Saranids as a mercenary, attacked all 7 of the other kingdoms. Left the Saranids to having to deal with massive trade embargos, war on all fronts and the prospect of having to make massive monetary concessions to end just a few of the wars I started on their behalf. Then I proceeded to launch a campaign in their own territory. I guess what I'm wondering, is whether or not Trump is really getting his marching orders, either directly or indirectly from Putin. It seems like Russia is the one with the most to gain from the USA picking fights with... Well everyone. Trump is crippling the global economy while the enemy is in Ukraine. He's also stealing all the media oxygen from what Russia is doing because compatibly speaking, Russia is just picking on Ukraine, the USA is trying to overtly bully everyone at once. Which looks worse? The demonisation fodder the USA has become for Russia, probably has the entire Kremlin in stitches laughing. What I also wonder, is besides Trump himself, who in his circle with a fair amount of influence over Trump, could also be directly a Russian asset?

Just wanted to check something with y'all; has anyone received their deep state checks that we are supposed to get for being anti-trump? Haven't seen the money yet and it's getting really difficult to pretend that I have eyes, ears and a brain.

I was curious and so I decided to do a little digging and it turns out trade conflicts and escalations were quite apparent in the lead up to both World Wars. While correlation does not equal causation, I can't help but wonder if escalating trade conflicts happening amongst other preamble criteria, could be a potential predictor of a third world war. I am curious about who exactly benefits from trade wars really? Orange Voldemort is assuming these tariffs will make America a lot of money, money for what? More money for his businesses and his butt buddies businesses to squeeze out of Americans? To fund foreign military campaigns? I've heard some talk that it's an attempt at a J-curve, slow down the economy for a reset. I don't really understand economics that well but I have a feeling that there will be no meaningful economic rebound from this anytime soon. Should also be noted that on a personal level I believe we are already in a cold start third World War and predict that future historians will mark the beginning of the war as sometime behind us already.

Any updates you have on some kind of subscription to help fund the forum you have, I'm willing to listen to that pitch. All I'd want to know is how far a fiver a month will go for you guys. Whatever reduces your ad reliance I'm game for really.

Problems with password reset and account creation not sending out confirmation emails, I know @Cap'n Refsmmat is aware but just to keep track of the early issues I'm putting them here. I was able to get back in but other long-term users may be having problems we aren't aware of. If anyone is having trouble getting the "contact us"form to send a confirmation email, enter "contact us" from the password reset or account creation areas. That's how I got through to administration when I was having trouble getting back into this account. All fixed now! Just putting this here for anybody else that can still read but can't login.

I'm not so sure; firstly relying on the mistakes of your enemies to get ahead, is a surefire sign that you're losing and have no good plan. The incompetence of the current administration doesn't matter much when the resistance against it has thus far also been incompetent. The rhetoric failure by the democrats to win over enough voters, cannot be ignored. I also don't believe deportation as a tool to silence and cause terror amongst the population will stop being a factor. The incompetence actually adds to it, because it can be more indiscriminate. Wait until an actual legal citizen is mistakenly deported and this administration refuses to bring them back. Again we are thinking of competency in the wrong way here; what matters is skillset. This administration seems to have some degree of skill in twisting the narratives of their mistakes, to their own advantage and the mistakes themselves cause harm. I asked a question in a different thread; What's worse, evil in charge or stupid in charge? Now I'm wondering if that question even matters when the answer might be that both are currently in charge.

It's being separated from my daughter that really does it for me. I know the mods and admins here have my back as far as illegal demands for my data from any government entity would go and this is really the only place online now I'm actively being anti-trump. But I've deleted my social media presence, this place is the only place left I feel free to speak my mind. We are still OT but honestly not sure I want to open a thread specifically addressing this issue. I fear myself as much as what could happen, will my principles allow me to keep my mouth shut to protect myself and my daughter no matter how bad things get? I honestly don't know, all I know is I resent being controlled with fear and I'm no stranger to speaking out against authority. I don't know where my line in the sand is yet and there are short term and long-term things to consider. At what point does resisting and protecting my family become the same thing? Are we at that point already? These are the questions keeping me awake at night. There are long term threats to my daughter's education, life, liberty and autonomy to consider too. Would you mind if we have a private dialogue about this from time to time? I know we don't agree on everything but this is definitely one area where I believe you understand more than most Americans. Honestly if more of you followed your example, the country wouldn't be in this mess.

I appreciate your honesty of your beliefs, it may be that we can't see completely eye to eye on this due to the differences in circumstances. Maybe I'm too close to the issue or maybe you're too far from it. Philosophical differences in rhetoric also contribute to our different points of view to some extent. You're quite intelligent and the risk I often see intelligent people taking lies in the area of epistemic responsibility. You've clarified that in the important ways we are definitely on the same side, neither of us wants Trump to have a third term and neither of us wants there to be a legal loophole giving him that ability. We disagree on whether or not that loophole exists, but the reason I bring up epistemic responsibility is to illustrate that if I believed there was a good argument to be made as to why it would be legally feasible for such a thing to happen... I'd keep it to myself, since the potential moral consequences for such an argument winning out, would be devastating. Dim was the one to bring up Socrates and while I don't think he's bringing him up for the same reasons, he is right to do so since epistemic responsibility is something that heavily impacted the way Socrates chose to live his life. The words (big clue) aren't as good of a clue as you think.

Dim this is one of those times where you're gonna have to make your point directly and stop beating around the bush. You're not that good at developing sensical puzzles and you're running the risk of being completely misconstrued.

I have no idea what you mean by this? I hope 47 dies because I can't figure out why he's wrong? I have no clue what that means. And I stand by hoping that he dies. Not gonna make me feel bad for that one dim. Might as well call me horrible or evil for hoping Hitler is in hell?