Higgs and mass

[jajrussel]

If the Highs particle determines the mass of the particle that it interacts with, what is to say that that the particular particle that it is interacting with doesn't also determine the Higgs particles mass? Wouldn't this be more easily accepted then saying that there is more than one type of Higgs particle?

[Strange]

If the Highs particle determines the mass of the particle that it interacts with, what is to say that that the particular particle that it is interacting with doesn't also determine the Higgs particles mass?

 

Wouldn't that imply that the mass of the Higgs boson was variable, depending what it was interacting with. In fact, the Higgs boson gets is mass from the same Higgs mechanism that other particles do.

[ajb]

Wouldn't this be more easily accepted then saying that there is more than one type of Higgs particle?

If you can construct a model that does not pooh-pooh the rest of the standard model then yes, this could become accepted.

 

However, having fundamental particles that don't have a single mass maybe difficult to properly understand.

[jajrussel]

If you can construct a model that does not pooh-pooh the rest of the standard model then yes, this could become accepted.

 

However, having fundamental particles that don't have a single mass maybe difficult to properly understand.

I was thinking more along the line that a fundamental particle being fundamental would always display a single mass in interaction with the Higgs, but that the Higgs particle display of mass would vary, determined by the fundamental particle it was interacting with.

[ajb]

I was thinking more along the line that a fundamental particle being fundamental would always display a single mass in interaction with the Higgs, but that the Higgs particle display of mass would vary, determined by the fundamental particle it was interacting with.

Indeed, so if the Higgs were a fundamental particle then I am not sure if this would be problematic for formulate. A composite Higgs maybe better for this.

 

Anyway, without a proper mechanism here it is hard to really discuss what you have in mind.

 

In the standard Higgs mechanism the mass of the Higgs is related to the vacuum expectation value of the the Higgs field itself. The potential for the Higgs is of the form

 

[math]V(\phi) = \mu \phi^{\dag}\phi + \lambda(\phi^{\dag} \phi)^{2}[/math]

 

and the mass of the Higgs [math]M_{H} = \sqrt{2}|\mu|[/math] which is relate to the VEV [math]\langle \phi\rangle = |\mu | \slash \sqrt{\lambda} [/math], which sets the mass or energy scale of the electroweak force. It is the interaction of the Higgs with itself that produces the mass.

[jajrussel]

Indeed, so if the Higgs were a fundamental particle then I am not sure if this would be problematic for formulate. A composite Higgs maybe better for this.

 

Anyway, without a proper mechanism here it is hard to really discuss what you have in mind.

 

In the standard Higgs mechanism the mass of the Higgs is related to the vacuum expectation value of the the Higgs field itself. The potential for the Higgs is of the form

 

[math]V(\phi) = \mu \phi^{\dag}\phi + \lambda(\phi^{\dag} \phi)^{2}[/math]

 

and the mass of the Higgs [math]M_{H} = \sqrt{2}|\mu|[/math] which is relate to the VEV [math]\langle \phi\rangle = |\mu | \slash \sqrt{\lambda} [/math], which sets the mass or energy scale of the electroweak force. It is the interaction of the Higgs with itself that produces the mass.

It will take me a while to figure out what you have written.

 

I will try to clarify my thought. Then perhaps the reasoning behind my thought might be more clear.

 

Me car is designed to hold four and one half guarts of oil. My display says it is down one half quart. Oil comes in one quart bottles. I only add enough oil so that the car displays four and one half quarts. Now my oil bottle displays one half quart. The cars engine design does not allow it to vary, but the oil bottles display is determined by the cars engine need and that need is determined by the car engines design.

 

I realize that I am being somewhat simplistic. What I am suggesting is that the Higgs particle only displays an energy signature consistent with the needs of the other fundamental particles it is interacting with thus allowing other fundamental particles to display energy signatures that are consistent with the type if particle that they are, while the Higgs energy signature is determined by the design of the fundamental particle it is interacting with.

 

In this sense the Higgs particle is flexible, and knowing the energy/mass signature it displays would indicate the type of particle that caused the ripple, so to speak.

 

I an not championing this thought though. It was just a question that occurred to me.

[MigL]

But the Higgs particle is also fundamental.

It is not composite; how would it adjust its mass depending on the interaction ?

 

In effect, once opened, you can only add the full quart, or none, to your engine.

[Mordred]

It's the seesaw mechanism involvement. Think of it as a Mexican hat potential.

 

At higher temperatures its yukawa couplings varies.

 

http://www.quantumfieldtheory.info/TheSeesawMechanism.htm

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seesaw_mechanism

 

 

http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/9911364

It's the seesaw mechanism involvement. Think of it as a Mexican hat potential.

 

At higher temperatures its yukawa couplings varies.

 

The mixing is between left hand and right hand neutrinos, and the yukawa couplings.

As the mass on one side increases the other side decreases.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Mordred