How does a higg's field remain connected everywhere?

[SamBridge]

Just what the title says, and this goes for any boson to. Thy are individual particles with imaginary mass prior to coupling or interaction, so how to they all combine to form a single field?

Edited February 24, 2013 by SamBridge

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Just what the title says, and this goes for any boson to. Thy are individual particles with imaginary mass prior to coupling or interaction, so how to they all combine to form a single field?

 

If the Higgs field and its' related Higgs Bosons , are the mechanism by which all particles develop or experience mass, then surely such a Higgs Mechanism must have been the ' The first past the Post ' at the initial outflow of inflation , at or very near to 'The Big Bang.'. This would make it the very nature of Space itself , would it not ?.

 

 

Post script

 

. ' First past the post' is an horse racing term, to describe the first contestant ( horse, greyhound, runner ) to leave the starting POST . [ I think] .

Edited February 24, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[ajb]

You think of the Universe being filled with a field, and the fundamental particles are localise fluctuations in this field.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

You think of the Universe being filled with a field, and the fundamental particles are localise fluctuations in this field.

 

Is this a statement ? or a Question ?

[ajb]

A statement, sorry for any confusion.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

A statement, sorry for any confusion.

 

Well this has connotations of an ether .( does it not ) ?

 

I do hope you are still going to be able to comment when you go off to China or Poland or where ever you are off to. I suppose they have the internet there, unless you are out in the Black Forest or somewhere ?

[ajb]

Well this has connotations of an ether .( does it not ) ?

No more than the electromagnetic field does, which we also take to fill all the Universe.

I do hope you are still going to be able to comment when you go off to China or Poland or where ever you are off to. I suppose they have the internet there, unless you are out in the Black Forest or somewhere ?

I am off to Poland and will still contribute here, just maybe not as much as I have recently.

[michel123456]

Well this has connotations of an ether .( does it not ) ?

 

I do hope you are still going to be able to comment when you go off to China or Poland or where ever you are off to. I suppose they have the internet there, unless you are out in the Black Forest or somewhere ?

haha, that would be for the geography section of this Forum.

 

The black forest is in Germany.

China is far from Poland.

As much as I remember from history Poland has always been a rich country suffering from its neighbours , Germany and Russia. Don't underestimate Poland because it was under oppression till lately.

 

------------

as to the point: what is a field?

Edited February 24, 2013 by michel123456

[ajb]

as to the point: what is a field?

A field is a section of a fibre bundle over space-time ;-)

 

All this really means is that we assign a mathematical object "the field" to every point in space-time.

[derek w]

A field is a section of a fibre bundle over space-time ;-)

 

All this really means is that we assign a mathematical object "the field" to every point in space-time.

obvious question what size is each point?

[michel123456]

That's what I knew. A field is a mathematical object.

[Przemyslaw.Gruchala]

 

A field is a section of a fibre bundle over space-time ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

All this really means is that we assign a mathematical object "the field" to every point in space-time.

 

 

 

Like this?

 

Edited February 24, 2013 by Przemyslaw.Gruchala

[SamBridge]

You think of the Universe being filled with a field, and the fundamental particles are localise fluctuations in this field.

But higg's fields don't act quite like that, because objects have varying mass, it makes more sense mathematically that more massive objects couple with a greater amount of individual higgs.

[Przemyslaw.Gruchala]

But higg's fields don't act quite like that, because objects have varying mass, it makes more sense mathematically that more massive objects couple with a greater amount of individual higgs.

 

Exactly. That's mine route of thinking too.

The more neutral particles added, the more mass and therefor the more influence on space.

Amount of neutral particles varying between particles.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Przemyslaw.Gruchala

[swansont]

Exactly. That's mine route of thinking too.

The more neutral particles added, the more mass and therefor the more influence on space.

Amount of neutral particles varying between particles.

 

!

Moderator Note

 

We are not discussing your personal model. That discussion is limited to its own thread in speculations. Science threads are for discussion of mainstream science only.

 

You've been told this before. Knock it off already.

 

Do not further derail the discussion by responding to this note in the thread

 

[SamBridge]

Exactly. That's mine route of thinking too.

The more neutral particles added, the more mass and therefor the more influence on space.

Amount of neutral particles varying between particles.

There's no particles between higgs particles, it's just that mathematically you treat higgs particles as bosons with wave-like trajectories, but somehow that allows them to be treated as one field throughout space.

[MigL]

Don't put the cart before the horse, Sam.

The Higgs mechanism involves the interaction of a scalar field, which AJB has already explaned. This field is, in effect, a false vacuum energy level throughout all of space ( to put it simply ). As a quantum field, it will have, by necesssity, fluctuations which manifest themselves as Higgs bosons.

 

Sorry to hear you won't be posting as much AJB.

Edited February 25, 2013 by MigL

[ajb]

obvious question what size is each point?

 

 

In standard classical or quantum field theory the underlying space-time is taken to be a smooth manifold, so points are zero dimensional objects.

 

But higg's fields don't act quite like that, because objects have varying mass, it makes more sense mathematically that more massive objects couple with a greater amount of individual higgs.

 

 

All fundamental particles we think of as small fluctuations in the fields, or at least we can for free fields.

 

Anyway, the Higg's field couples to the fundamental fermions via a Yukawa coupling.

 

Sorry to hear you won't be posting as much AJB.

It depends on my schedule and so on... I don't expect to become a stranger here though.

 

Back to topic, what you said about the Higgs field and the particles is correct.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

There's no particles between higgs particles, it's just that mathematically you treat higgs particles as bosons with wave-like trajectories, but somehow that allows them to be treated as one field throughout space.

 

I thought , the Higgs mechanism was in two parts , as it has been called , consisting of the Higgs Field ( a field permeating all space) and individual Higgs bosons that communicated with individual matter particles ( in so doing giving the particles mass, to some degree, or not as the case may be.)

 

Quite how the individual particle ' teases out ' the Higgs boson , to give the individual particle mass , I have not a clue !

 

Somehow an additional post has squeezed in ahead of mine as I was writing my post . Not sure how ! (Ajb with special tricks available to him, I guess ) which, his post seems to have explained things in a more eloquent way scientifically than me . Although I am not sure I understand all this , manifold, false vacuum, field explanation too well.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[derek w]

In standard classical or quantum field theory the underlying space-time is taken to be a smooth manifold, so points are zero dimensional objects.

Sorry.not quiet what I was getting at.what is the graininess,the distance between each point of space-time,if every point is considered as zero dimension then all of space-time would occupy zero dimension?

[ajb]

Sorry.not quiet what I was getting at.what is the graininess,the distance between each point of space-time,if every point is considered as zero dimension then all of space-time would occupy zero dimension?

So, classically we have a smooth manifold, each point is exactly that a zero dimensional point.

 

The manifold is built up as the collection of all these points, and there is an infinite number of points. This is not the dimension, the dimension is the minimum number of number needed to specify any point. On standard space-time this is four.

[SamBridge]

If there's an infinite number of points, theoretically they can constitute a physical object can't they? Kind of like how an infinite number of infinitely small boxes can give you the exact integral.

[ajb]

If there's an infinite number of points, theoretically they can constitute a physical object can't they? Kind of like how an infinite number of infinitely small boxes can give you the exact integral.

The thing here is that we have a mathematical model of space-time and so we can be comfortable with the notion of an infinite number of points. However, you cannot go away with some physical apparatus and actually measure in any small region an infinite number of points. Worse than that, it maybe the case that at the smallest scales space-time is not properly described by a set of points and more general notions of "space" are needed.

[MigL]

I would point out that a ruler can be subdivided indefinitely into smaller and smaller intervals such that an infinity of them would be constituted of zero size points. This does not mean that the ruler is a point. It has a definite length. The same argument can be made for the 4D contiguous manifold of space-time.

 

As AJB points out however, certain theories like LQG, describe small scales without using contiguous points.

Edited February 26, 2013 by MigL

[derek w]

So, classically we have a smooth manifold, each point is exactly that a zero dimensional point.

 

 

assuming that nature is a smooth manifold,we can only create a model that is based on the smallest distance measured,therefore our model has a graininess.