I added paragraph numbers.
1. Western morality is derived from law approved by the people, it's based on inherent human rights, not religion...
2. Way to side step the issue, your religion teaches we will burn in hell for ever end ever no matter how small or large our crimes are.
Every child according to your religion is born with original sin because adam and eve sinned...
3. Where does it say this?
4. You ignore the fact that your morality is not the morality the bible teaches, you side step the issue every time...
5. The first mention of Christ occurred 70 or 80 years after his death, any text claiming to quote him directly is fiction. 400 years later there were 20 gospels, by popular vote it was winnowed down to the 4 we know today even though some of the deleted texts are references in the 4 left.
6. Yes i did you are blinded by the light and can't see them... go back and reread this thread...
1. This is probably the first reasonable response here regarding the source of atheistic morality. So, how does one discern our inherent human rights?
2. In other words, God does not give "partial credit". You've heard that before, right? You either "get it" or you don't "get it". Babies are born 100% selfish, and they must learn to "play with others", to "be good", etc ... right? So then, is 100% selfish okay? An apparent atheist on this forum said that babies must be this way, or in Christian words, that they must be born with "original sin". No mystery there.
Keeping with the idea of "sin" for a moment, complaining about going to hell for a tiny unrepentant sin is like complaining about being charged with a parking ticket when there's all sorts of serious crime going on in our society that the cops should pay more attention to instead of checking for expired parking meters. By paying attention to expired parking meters, is the government claiming that there's not enough child abuse, pedophilia, rapes, murders, robberies, burglaries, elder abuse, suicides by bullying, etc for them to focus on, but they have plenty of time and manpower to spend checking if I was a dime short on a lousy parking meter and then forcing me to go to court if I want to fight it? This is all for the good of society, right? A dime short? Hunt them down! Charge them! Punish them!
Is it not good enough to say, for example, that I'm having an extramarital affair, but at least I'm not a pedophile, rapist, murderer, thief, etc, therefore, having an affair is okay? For want of a nail, right? We can applaud the realization of the Butterfly Effect in Chaos Theory, but we can't applaud us living life down to the minutest detail of moral living.
And let me point out here that it's not a matter of sin that separates the Christian from the non-believer because we all sin. Did you know that Christians sin? It's a matter of repentance and being committed to working toward a more perfect life.
3. The Book of James 1:14-17
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
4. This is basically a closed issue. One atheist here even said that, not only do Christians not act according to how the atheists interpret the Bible, but even Christ didn't act as he should (ie, he should have stoned the prostitute). Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe, the atheists got it wrong. Keep reading.
5. The claim that the gospels were written long after Christ's death is not true. On the idea of the many gospels that "by popular vote it was winnowed down to the 4 we know today", are you saying that all those writings were right or that it was wrong to try to determine which ones were right?
The determination wasn't really by "popular vote", although it may seem that way to an atheist who doesn't understand the powers of the Holy Spirit. However, you said that western morality is derived from law approved by the people — essentially, popular vote. So, you seem to say that it's okay that morality can be approved by popular vote, but that facts relating of a religious figure must not be.
Consider some "realities" floating around this forum and other scientific forums almost real time — the govt blew up the Twin Towers (and Bldg 7), the Pentagon was hit by a missile, the govt is keeping Nicolo Tesla's highly-advanced technology a secret, Area 51, etc. These things must be real because people have read books on these things, right? Tesla is a particularly good example here because he was a real person and of some well-earned fame but on whom people have piggybacked all sorts of wild claims.
6. Please read below.
The same freaking passage I've quoted several times, dude. In this thread, even. Come on. You know exactly what I'm talking about. But, hey, let's copypasta:
"THINK NOT THAT I COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, TIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."-Jesus (Matthew 5:17-20)
That's pretty explicit. The Law applies in its entirety until ALL is fulfilled. Has ALL been fulfilled? Has the second coming happened yet? Luckily for us, in this very explicit passage, he told us when ALL will be fulfilled: when heaven and Earth pass away.
Yep, still here. So, the Law still applies in full.
And I keep saying that Jesus fulfilled all the laws and the prophets, which refers to the OT. The second coming is not in the OT. The term "Law" refers to the Torah, which are the first five books of the OT, and the term "Prophets" refers to the rest of the OT.
There are much bigger religious fish to fry than Christians. Try bashing those religious people who believe in female genital mutilation, throwing acid in women's faces, and honor killings. They are people who actually perform evil acts.
Edited by ewmon, 24 March 2013 - 09:22 AM.