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#41 michel123456

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:00 PM

An obstacle to what? You're already reading what a person has expressed, so why is it necessary to see what they really look like?

To my mind, it can only add unnecessary judgment. I know you see it as more personable, like the difference between talking to someone on the phone and seeing them in person, but on many internet forums, especially scientific ones, we try very hard to distance the idea from the person who has the idea just so there is no extraneous judgment involved. One of the worst crimes you can commit here is to attack someone personally rather than their idea.

(...)
if you knew nothing else about them, no matter what idea was being expressed? Truly?


I understand your point. But you must recognize that the elimination of "extraneous judgment" is wishfull thinking (http://en.wikipedia....ishful_thinking)

In practice
_You must learn to know someone first before you can hear what he says.
_words from people like Barack, Albert, Isaac, are recognized because the one who said it is important, not because of the wording.
_words from people like Benitto or Adolf are dismissed for the same reason.

The "who is talking" is very important.
My point was simply that IMO the avatar is an obstacle to know Who is talking. It make me feel like belonging to a secret society where the members are outlaws, fearing something.
Maybe we have to fear something, actually, as Phee said, and others. Maybe I am naive.
Hm, I am .
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Michel what have you done?


#42 Sisyphus

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:10 PM

What do you gain by knowing someone's face? You say "to know them," but what you "know" about a person just by looking at them is just prejudice, exactly what we want to avoid.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

#43 michel123456

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:21 PM

What do you gain by knowing someone's face? You say "to know them," but what you "know" about a person just by looking at them is just prejudice, exactly what we want to avoid.


I already exposed my prejudice based (wrongly) on your avatar.

i scrolled around another thread here http://www.sciencefo...read.php?t=9208

Quite educating.

the most interesting being post #14 from YT2095 (Chemistry Expert) February 22nd, 2005, 3:16 PM #14

Chemistry ExpertMine is me, and Why is because I type things on here like Me, I represent Me, I`ve nothing to hide by Showing me.


And shows no avatar at all....
----------
editing. Prejudice or prejudgment?
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#44 Sisyphus

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:30 PM

So your point is that you want to be prejudiced based on somebody's real life appearance, rather than an image they choose to represent them?
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

#45 Phi for All

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:34 PM

I understand your point. But you must recognize that the elimination of "extraneous judgment" is wishfull thinking

Eliminating anything completely would be difficult, so we do what we can to eliminate extraneous judgment. Avatars and Usernames are a very simple way of reducing the chances we might be judged unfairly by the way we look or who we are in real life.

In practice
_You must learn to know someone first before you can hear what he says.
_words from people like Barack, Albert, Isaac, are recognized because the one who said it is important, not because of the wording.
_words from people like Benitto or Adolf are dismissed for the same reason.


Suppose this phrase is spoken, by this avatar:
Posted Image
"The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but only those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others."



Great words, and very inspiring. But change the avatar to the man who actually said them, and your judgment of the words changes:

Posted Image
"The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but only those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others." --Adolph Hitler

The words are still inspiring. It's those words that you should be concentrating on, not the person who said them. Hitler may have been a monster, but he said some very inspiring things. The fact that he was who he was doesn't make them less poignant. This is why, in science, we try to reduce the extraneous judgment where we can.

The "who is talking" is very important.
My point was simply that IMO the avatar is an obstacle to know Who is talking. It make me feel like belonging to a secret society where the members are outlaws, fearing something.


In science, things are different. The processes used work well, and we try to emulate and use them whenever possible.

Maybe we have to fear something, actually, as Phee said, and others. Maybe I am naive.
Hm, I am .

If you can't see a reason why your real life and your internet life can't be joined, then you're not being naive. Some people have real concerns and we should respect that.
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#46 michel123456

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 07:36 PM

Fair.

---------------

O.K. some people here do feel necessary to use an avatar that is not themselves, but something else. I understand those people do have something to hide, and I can only respect that.

O.K. some people believe that's a good way to improve rational judgment about discussions & ideas.

But I still believe that the majority of users do use an avatar only because they are used to do so playing some games on their Nitendo. There is nothing serious in it, its just fun.
And when you ask them to reveal their face, its not fun anymore, its annoying. Too serious, not cool.
Who is that guy who wants to go to carnaval without a mask?

Edited by michel123456, 21 April 2010 - 07:48 PM.

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#47 Cap'n Refsmmat

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 07:40 PM

I wonder how different online communities might be if people chose usernames that sounded like ordinary names (not necessarily their own name, but definitely name-ish). That is, you could refer to people mentally as a real person with a real name, rather than thinking of them as "the dude with that weird avatar."
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#48 A Tripolation

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:54 PM

Hmm...I more think that people remember the user names and not the Avatar. Or is that just me? Like I NEVER remembered Cap'n Refsmmat or the Domino thingy avatar. I remembered Cap'n Crunch. Because it's the same sounding...and the letters are red and the cereal box is red... Anywho.
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Why, Mr. Anderson, why? Why? Why do you do it? Why? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe youre fighting for something? For more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know?
Is it freedom or truth? Perhaps peace? Could it be for love? Illusions Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose.

#49 forufes

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 11:37 AM

i'm going to take over the world someday, and having my pic here would link a treasure trove of info on me to others, and info is power, which i'm not so keen on leaving laying around for my enemies.
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#50 michel123456

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 07:54 AM

I like this one
http://www.sciencefo...line=1240330713
Hi Vladimir

And this one
http://www.sciencefo...7740&type=thumb

Hi Trip (the name has absolutely no importance)

And for those who don't like to show their face, I liked this refreshing one
http://www.sciencefo...5906&type=thumb

Hi Severian.

Edited by michel123456, 25 April 2010 - 08:03 AM.

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#51 iNow

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:59 PM

I like this one
<...>
And this one
http://www.sciencefo...7740&type=thumb

Hi Trip (the name has absolutely no importance)

Except, that's not a picture of him. :D

http://lost.about.co...ers/p/jacob.htm
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#52 michel123456

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 02:10 PM

:doh:
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#53 iNow

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:13 PM

Why do you keep bringing up these types of issues? Why are they so important to you?

www.scienceforums.net/topic/64493-making-your-credentials-known-to-new-comers/
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#54 Phi for All

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:25 PM

Why do you keep bringing up these types of issues? Why are they so important to you?

www.scienceforums.net/topic/64493-making-your-credentials-known-to-new-comers/

Now I recognize his picture. michel fled France and moved to Greece to avoid the Sret's charges of identity theft.
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#55 michel123456

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

Now I recognize his picture. michel fled France and moved to Greece to avoid the Sret's charges of identity theft.

Not France: Belgium.

Why do you keep bringing up these types of issues? Why are they so important to you?

www.scienceforums.net/topic/64493-making-your-credentials-known-to-new-comers/


Because when i meet someone in real life, I give my professional card. The person looks at the card, looks at me. I take a look at his card, I look at him. Then the discussion begins.

Even if I enter a bar and begin discussing with everybody without presenting myself, people will say "who is that guy?". That will happen even if I am the owner of the establishment.

This Forum, as many others, don't work that way. Here there is bunch of peculiar individuals who hide behind masks. When they are asked to present themselves they respond as if it was an intrusion in their privacy, which is not, it is the most natural thing to do.

----------------------
O.k. guys, i am making an obsession.
after reading this old thread, I realize that, no doubt about it.

Forget it.

---------------------

And again I cannot see this thread under "My Content".
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Michel what have you done?


#56 Xittenn

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:28 AM

Not France: Belgium.



Because when i meet someone in real life, I give my professional card. The person looks at the card, looks at me. I take a look at his card, I look at him. Then the discussion begins.

Even if I enter a bar and begin discussing with everybody without presenting myself, people will say "who is that guy?". That will happen even if I am the owner of the establishment.

This Forum, as many others, don't work that way. Here there is bunch of peculiar individuals who hide behind masks. When they are asked to present themselves they respond as if it was an intrusion in their privacy, which is not, it is the most natural thing to do.



This argument is by far the most callous post I have ever seen! If I walk into a bar my conversation isn't logged on a globally connected server for everyone to see. In the extreme, if I give my business card to someone it isn't made available to terrorist factions or government agencies or every other firm on the planet. There are dangerous people, some who do not like what scientists are involved in, and they do go to measures to find the people they wish to harm and do so (whatever way that might be). There are also those that are less honest and manipulate the information to their own ends.

In the more likely scenario--an employer might see you saying something stupid in the moment and them holding it against you. With respect to employers, there are such things as non-disclosure agreements and if an employer were aware of an individuals activity in a forum they might ask that person to stop posting. Even if there hasn't been a breech of confidentiality it could still constitute a conflict of interest. According to my last non-disclosure I was not even allowed to mention to anyone what it was I was doing, it was nothing special but all the same.

What the hell do you care?

I'm just saying there are those who work in sensitive areas and it is more relevant than your need to know!
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"He is their god! He leads them like a thing made by some other deity than Nature that shapes man better. And they follow him against us brats with no less confidence than boys pursuing summer butterflies, or butchers killing flies." - Cominius; Shakespears Coriolanus

#57 immortal

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:21 PM

I agree with Xittenn here, I am currently doing my final year project about blocking misbehaving users in anonymizing networks like Tor. Sometimes it is very necessary for one to be anonymous while doing or posting some sensitive issues over the internet where privacy and personal freedom is needed and if you're not on an anonymous network which encrypts your original IP address one can easily figure out what websites you log in daily, one can easily trace all your activities over the internet and this would be a big problem if someone threatens you and ask you for some ransom in return.

People do stupid things just for fun, there are stupid people out there and no one likes to be their victims. The benefit of revealing one's credentials and identity is going to come at the cost of that person's life. I think we should make our claims by substantiating it with genuine links from scientific oriented journals so that people don't have any problems with the credibility of the claims being made.
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#58 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:56 PM

I have to say i use my avatar everywhere i go on the net that allows an avatar, when I change it i change it everyplace, my current avatar is a poke of humor at myself. On another forum I can choose my own title under the avatar and It says "Hello Low IQ'ers" if anyone is familiar with this particular avatar you know that is what Bullwinkle always said when he opened up his "Mr. Know it All" segment and he never got anything right... He is the quintessential idiot and totally unaware of his lack of knowledge...
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