Sayonara Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 What's their system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 OBSERVABLE FACT AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA Well I hope we all know the Mark Twain quote. Looking at it from a broader perspective, rather than two years of data, there has been an overall continuation of the rise in assualts and unlawful entry that occurred in the 1990's and the overall drop in homicide since the peak in the 1980's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jattaway Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The Swiss are all issued assault weapons during their mandatory term in the armed services, after their tour, they take the weapons home with them. They have very low crime rates compared with other european nations. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/wallstreet.html Very interesting read with a lot of statistical information. http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd061099b.html This link I put here just because I found it interesting and brief (i.e. has better chance of you actually reading it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mardigan Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 What's their system? See above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 In response to all the stats prove this posts... http://pearlyabraham.tripod.com/htmls/myth-guncontrol.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 See above post. Very interesting. It does however reinforce the idea that the high rate of gun deaths in the USA is related to something in the American psyche, as Michael Moore was over-enthusiastically trying to point out in Bowling for Columbine (the bit people carefully ignored). I find it quite disturbing that people think they need guns to defend themselves from their neighbours - to the point where they expect to be attacked and train for lethal self-defence - and everyone seems to get on as if that's just life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jattaway Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 [ It does however reinforce the idea that the high rate of gun deaths in the USA is related to something in the American psyche Agreed, but that is not really the point though, is it? You can see clearly that the cause is the individual, and not the gun. Japan has a very low crime rate (in the same league as the Swiss) but no firearms. They also have police searches of their homes and some extreme views on police brutality, but that is not really the point either. Violence in the inner cities of the US will exist with or without guns (and I stress, just like drugs, it is impossible to keep them out given our border situation). The difference is that by allowing private citizens to carry firearms; the law abiding private citizen is able to protect himself and his property. If we accept the above test beds with the Swiss, and I really think anyone with a modicum of intellectual honesty will agree that they make a great example, it is easy to see that guns are a neutral element when it comes to crime and violence. With that in mind, an educated, informed populous that is armed, is safer so long as their endeavors remain lawful. Gun control only helps criminals. As to the entire justice angle, in the US we maintain a different attitude than some of our Euro neighbors. A criminal’s rights end when he crosses the threshold into my home. This is a separate argument, however, and unrelated to the core focus of this discussion which was focused on the merits of gun ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 that site is garbage, they failed to state gun deaths vs. car "accident" deaths, vs. drowning, vs. chances of getting struck by lightening. not only that, but how do you distinguish what is a justified shooting or not...only 300 shootings were justified? i think not, given that every night on the news i hear about some woman raped on a college campass, or some other crap like that...there are well over 300, however, its because of out screwed up courts system that these are not classified as justified shootings. i've heard cases of guys breaking into houses and then throwing the owners to the floor, then the owner throws boiling water on them or some other crazy thing, and the owner actually gets sued for it. because he could have "fled" his house. what bull crap is that? if someone breaks into my house, they're gonna find a 12 gauge between their teeth and nowhere to run. just think, in MA even pepper spray is banned without an FID card which costs 200 dollars and a couple weeks to obtain. and they wonder why women are still being raped...because they can't defend themselves, the attackers have nothing to worry about. but, if everytime they attacked they got sprayed, they'd probably A. stop attacking, or B. put a gas mask on...and that would eliminate at least 1/3rd of attackers. its common sense. but hey, if you want to join the anti-gun rally, why not march up to diane feinsteins door and check out her revolver...i guess its quite nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 You probably think you sound sane, but you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 i sound insane...because people want to ban something that will protect me, exposing me to other people who dont abide by the rules who have that means of protection and who will use it on me in an assaulting mannor to take my car, money, house, life....the banning of self-defense is insane. anti-gunners sound(look would be a better word) insane when they sponsor a bill to outlaw guns, but THEY ARE GUN OWNERS!!! lol, shows the logic. they can have guns, but we cant. you think thats sane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 i sound insane...because people want to ban something that will protect me, exposing me to other people who dont abide by the rules who have that means of protection and who will use it on me in an assaulting mannor to take my car, money, house, life....the banning of self-defense is insane. anti-gunners sound(look would be a better word) insane when they sponsor a bill to outlaw guns, but THEY ARE GUN OWNERS!!! lol, shows the logic. they can have guns, but we cant. you think thats sane? The far left folks will tell you that children (via accidental deaths) will be killed by the thousands, suicides will skyrocket, inter family deaths will go thru the roof AND, guns have never saved a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mardigan Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Guns have saved lives, and protected valuables. You really cant use America as a basis for crime rate though. This is the melting pot of society, we have every type of person on this planet here. No other country is as diverse as ours. And btw, I am a NRA member, they do alot more then a nonmember thinks. r1, you sound sane to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Pass a law that all women MUST have a firearm. Men CANNOT have a firearm. That might work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 i sound insane...because people want to ban something that will protect me, exposing me to other people who dont abide by the rules who have that means of protection and who will use it on me in an assaulting mannor to take my car, money, house, life....the banning of self-defense is insane. anti-gunners sound(look would be a better word) insane when they sponsor a bill to outlaw guns, but THEY ARE GUN OWNERS!!! lol, shows the logic. they can have guns, but we cant. you think thats sane? Paranoid as well. It's not a good impression of the gun owning public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mardigan Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Paranoid is what the criminals need when they are about to commit there crime, wondering if this person is going to packing or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 That's certainly not how I would pick my society to be, paranoid and armed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Agreed' date=' but that is not really the point though, is it? You can see clearly that the cause is the individual, and not the gun. Japan has a very low crime rate (in the same league as the Swiss) but no firearms. They also have police searches of their homes and some extreme views on police brutality, but that is not really the point either. Violence in the inner cities of the US will exist with or without guns (and I stress, just like drugs, it is impossible to keep them out given our border situation). The difference is that by allowing private citizens to carry firearms; the law abiding private citizen is able to protect himself and his property. If we accept the above test beds with the Swiss, and I really think anyone with a modicum of intellectual honesty will agree that they make a great example, it is easy to see that guns are a neutral element when it comes to crime and violence. With that in mind, an educated, informed populous that is armed, is safer so long as their endeavors remain lawful. Gun control only helps criminals.[/quote'] If you say there's no correlation between gun laws and crime rates, then it's a baseless argument that liberal gun laws make for lower crime rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 The far left folks will tell you that children (via accidental deaths) will be killed by the thousands, suicides will skyrocket, inter family deaths will go thru the roof AND, guns have never saved a life. Kids die from drowning, poeple will kill themselves with tylenol and vodka, husbands will beat, stab and strangle, wifes will poison and run over their husbands... Guns make it simpler. Guns have saved plenty of lives. Taken a lot too. They will continue to. But if you take guns away from citizens your going to throw off the balance. Besides, take away my gun, i'll carry a knife, take that away, i'll carry a club, then a bat, then a mace, then an axe, then a tire iron, then a pointy stick, then a rock, then a bow, then a class 4 laser. Neverending cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Besides, take away my gun, i'll carry a knife, take that away, i'll carry a club, then a bat, then a mace, then an axe, then a tire iron, then a pointy stick, then a rock, then a bow, then a class 4 laser. Neverending cycle. No, what's a never-ending cycle is people posting to this thread with arguments that have already been destroyed in it, because they can't be bothered to read back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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