s1eep Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 What is the point of religion? What is Religion trying to express, with or without God? This is not a discussion on whether God exists or not, but rather, what God means to the people who believe, and the meaning, to the interested indviduals, of religion. And I have more questions, but for the religious who believe in God, or even Atheist opinions: how do you know God? What have you done to verify your belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 What is the point of religion? What is Religion trying to express, with or without God? This is not a discussion on whether God exists or not, but rather, what God means to the people who believe, and the meaning, to the interested indviduals, of religion. And I have more questions, but for the religious who believe in God, or even Atheist opinions: how do you know God? What have you done to verify your belief? "What is the point of religion?" Why should there be a single point for all the markedly different religions of the world. Surely each religion believes itself correct and the others misguided / mistaken and the same will apply to the believers rationalisation of the point of each religion. Personally, I view the "point" of the major Abrahamic religions to be a division of society into rule-makers and followers, the oppression of women and children through the maintenance of patricarchy, and use of the leverage of religious faith in battles for territory and assets. "What is Religion trying to express, with or without God?" I do not think religion has a will that is divorced from that of its elite guiding members - as such religion isn't trying to express anything. "The Grand Inquistor" even though it is a story within a novel is a great disposition of the gulf that exists between the ideal of religion and the reality of religion existing in human society. Unfortunately, the actuality of what religion has achieved and seems determined to carry on striving for is much more the temporal worldly power of the Inquisitor than the moral and self-sacrificing humility of the returned Christ. "And I have more questions, but for the religious who believe in God, or even Atheist opinions: how do you know God?" Scientifically; you cannot as long as you define God as supernatural - if something is beyond nature then it is beyond science, if it is within science it is no longer supernatural. Faith is a whole new ball game and impossible to show in any way that is not purely subjective. The question of multiple contradictory religions again causes difficulty here. "What have you done to verify your belief?" Per the above - you cannot really do anything to verify your belief. In fact, some religions have caught on to this fact and have strict injunctions about even trying to test God 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) My take on religion is driven by the simple fact they have the burden of proof because they make a positive claim and I simply don't see any evidence that even comes close to meeting the burden of proof... I posted a image in the jokes thread in the lounge i thought illustrated this very well... Edited November 21, 2013 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1eep Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 My take on religion is driven by the simple fact they have the burden of proof because they make a positive claim and I simply don't see any evidence that even comes close to meeting the burden of proof... I posted a image in the jokes thread in the lounge i thought illustrated this very well... I agree that religions should prove their God before believing; hence the question, how do they verify God? Otherwise it's delusional belief; rather than belief in something coherent. How is God coherent to believers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I agree that religions should prove their God before believing; hence the question, how do they verify God? Otherwise it's delusional belief; rather than belief in something coherent. How is God coherent to believers? In my experience believers either are not aware of how unsupportable their beliefs are or do not care. The more fundamentalist they are the more they are likely not to care if their beliefs are incoherent and tend to only listen to those who agree with them assuming anyone who does not is either deluded, mislead, and or trying to delude or mislead them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1eep Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) If you do not know God, and you haven't verified it because you know you do not know, wouldn't verification be 'that which you do not know'; that is the only way God is coherent, or means anything other than stupidity. You need a basis for God to have any kind of argument. Edited November 25, 2013 by s1eep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 For personal verification of anything I claim to believe in, I define "belief" in three different ways; trust, hope and faith. Trust is the type of belief you can have when there is empirical evidence to support it. I trust in evolution because I can see it working, test it myself, read all the evidence that supports it. Hope is wishful thinking. I hope my consciousness lives on after my body dies, but I have nothing to support that belief, and I don't do anything to center my life on that hope; it's just a wish I harbor. Faith asks me to believe strongly, without question, in things for which there is no supporting evidence. In fact, it goes out of its way to enforce the idea that strong belief in the supernatural has some kind of magic power, that giving yourself over to this faith will somehow "set you free". I think faith sets you free of rationality. Faith demands you stop looking for answers outside of god(s), stop wondering why your sacred documents are so contradictory, stop wondering why there are so many better reality-based explanations, stop being weak and asking questions. I think the point of religions is to give simple comfort to people who are afraid of being on their own. It started because imagination saved lives and passed itself along to succeeding generations. Imagination saw tigers in shadows and imagination lets us project ahead to see what will benefit us. Imagination is good mostly, but it also shows us how lies help us and how people will revere us if we know things they don't. Imagination is at the heart of religion, imo, and it's the dark heart that has made things up for so long it now believes every word it has fabricated. You can't verify God, but you can be honest with yourself and realize faith is not a wise form of belief. Faith is no more stable than hope, but at least hope doesn't ask you to change your whole life. Trust is the only way to verify what you believe in, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Unity, like-minded people. Basically giving you the feeling you are not alone out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pears Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 What is the point of religion? What is Religion trying to express, with or without God? This is not a discussion on whether God exists or not, but rather, what God means to the people who believe, and the meaning, to the interested indviduals, of religion. For me religion is God. I prefer not to focus on religion but on God. And I have more questions, but for the religious who believe in God, or even Atheist opinions: how do you know God? What have you done to verify your belief? My personal experiences of God are verification (for me) that He exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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